Water/Meth Injection

[Tonba]

Hey All,

Im currently building my 2003 Evo VIII.

2.3L
Built Heads w/ Kelford TX272
Trust T67-25G turbocharger
Haltech Platnum Sport 2000 Standalone
MAP REV 3 intake
MIL.SPEC 65mm throttle

Basically, what I would like to do is set up my ECU to control boost and run dual maps. (like what the tephra maps can do with the stock ecu).

Things I would like to know is;

-If I build with higher compression, is it possible to run the water/meth at cruise on low flow? Would this effect things?
-What about running the water/meth on high load before it comes onto boost to try and get the turbo to spool quicker??

Basically I would like to run it at 22psi on pump with a higher compression (9.5~10.0) and then 28~30psi with the water meth running. With the fail safes swapping to the lower boost map.

Is this possible? Does anyone run water meth on cruise??

[SnowTech]

It is possible, but generally not needed. Our MPG-MAX system for instance will inject based on boost and on injector pulsewidth, with one small primary nozzle and one large secondary nozzle. Generally the primary is set to inject at load states such as normal acceleration from a stop or going up a hill etc. This handles any situation where detonation could arise unless you have a truly aggressive compression ratio on the order of about 11:5:1 static or higher. At cruise you usually dont have enough cylinder pressure/temperature to create detonation, and thats especially true with the cams and turbo you mentioned above.

Regarding improved spool, you will hear a lot of opinions on that. With water-methanol injection, you are able to run a more efficient AFR and also more timing, both of which can affect spool. Some tuners can run a bit richer and gain some spool in the 3K-4K range. Pre-compressor injection is said to improve spool, but as I said there are a lot of factors there. We dont recomend pre-turbo injection for the sake of the turbo, but other do recomend it. It can be done easaly with any system.

[Tonba]

Basically, we will be running a CR of around 9.5:1 ~ 10.0:1.

It wouldnt be useful to run a small amout of water/meth at cruise, lean out the AFR and throw in more timing??

I would really like to try to get better spool and off boost drivability with it.

[SnowTech]

With that compression, your off-boost manners will be quite good, but you will not have problems with detonation off-boost. With the semi-aggressive cams you are running, you will not have super-high cylinder pressures below 3K, so even with healthy timing advance you will probably have 0 issues with detonation and thus not need much in the way of injection at cruise. At the same time, a 2.3 will spool that hotside/coldside combo pretty well. My old 2.4 G4CS based engine was wonderful that way, and I had 8.7:1 compression.

A system can easaly be setup to inject at cruise, but the benefits are usually not worth the extra fluid used. The happy medium for what you are looking to do here is a very small amount of injection under normal acceleration or going up a hill. This keeps temperatures well in hand for response, can help with fuel economy a bit, and does not use too much fluid.

[Tonba]

^ I like the idea of a small amount under light load.

I would like a system with failsafes so that If anything goes wrong, the ECU quickly swaps to lowboost

[Chef-j]

Originally Posted by SnowTech

A system can easaly be setup to inject at cruise, but the benefits are usually not worth the extra fluid used.

+1,

Are you going to use it on DD? You also have to keep that in mind that, this is going out very quickly. Always gotta have extra gallon in the trunk. lol

[SnowTech]

Originally Posted by Tonba

^ I like the idea of a small amount under light load.

I would like a system with failsafes so that If anything goes wrong, the ECU quickly swaps to lowboost

Also easaly done with off-the-shelf parts, and very advisable for an aggressively tuned car.

[Tonba]

If i did have a system like this, I would tune very aggressive to suit.

[Tonba]

Originally Posted by Chef-j

+1,

Are you going to use it on DD? You also have to keep that in mind that, this is going out very quickly. Always gotta have extra gallon in the trunk. lol

For the moment it is DD. Soon though it will only be weekend.

[SnowTech]

A 2.5 gallon tank works very well in the trunk of the Evo, and thats enough to last a very long time, even in a DD car. This also alows for the pump to be in the back of the vehicle as well.

[Richard L]

Originally Posted by Tonba

Hey All,

Im currently building my 2003 Evo VIII.

2.3L
Built Heads w/ Kelford TX272
Trust T67-25G turbocharger
Haltech Platnum Sport 2000 Standalone
MAP REV 3 intake
MIL.SPEC 65mm throttle

Basically, what I would like to do is set up my ECU to control boost and run dual maps. (like what the tephra maps can do with the stock ecu).

Things I would like to know is;

-If I build with higher compression, is it possible to run the water/meth at cruise on low flow? Would this effect things?
-What about running the water/meth on high load before it comes onto boost to try and get the turbo to spool quicker??

Basically I would like to run it at 22psi on pump with a higher compression (9.5~10.0) and then 28~30psi with the water meth running. With the fail safes swapping to the lower boost map.

Is this possible? Does anyone run water meth on cruise??

Any high compression engine will benefit from having a small amount of knock suppressant injected. Keeping the timing closer towards MBT is never a bad idea. On cruising (close loop), the ECU will automatically advance the timing just short of knock.

You need to get a progressive system that mirrors the load closely. Too much or too little will have the opposite effect.

[SnowTech]

True.

Another thing to consider is that in closed loop operation, fuel trims will also adjust as the methanol affects 02 readings. This can result in some fuel economy benefits.