WI seen through "Sight Glass" On Plenum

Richard L · Jan 12, 2009, 06:21 PM

Follow this link to see how water behaves inside the plenum under boost. Short video.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=655

The site was down for a while.

JeffMas1587 · Jan 12, 2009, 06:33 PM

ha that was fun to watch

inco9nito99 · Jan 12, 2009, 06:36 PM

Very cool although I'm curious as to why there is so much water left behind. I figured that under "high" boost, relatively high heat and high rate of atomization that the water left at the end of the spray cycle would be very little.

What size nozzle is the car running? What psi is the pump providing pressure? Is left over water there because the pump started to spray too early and the water couldn't fully atomize? Too close to manifold? How much boost is the car running? There are tons of questions I can ask, but please elaborate, I'm genuinely curious.

Richard L · Jan 13, 2009, 02:45 AM

The link above goes to the entire article, information of the jet size etc. I too am surpise to see the amount of water left in the chamber off boost.

dudical26 · Jan 13, 2009, 10:52 AM

I remeber seeing that video a few years back but I now have a better understanding of WI and I appreciate the view more now.

I am supprised that so many droplets accumulated with only a .4mm jet. Also the jet was placed about 13" before the glass in the intake pipe.

I can't even imagine what it looks like inside an evo with 2x 1.0mm jets.

Really makes a case for port injection.

Richard L · Jan 13, 2009, 12:48 PM

I can imaging there is a significant difference in how water mist is distributed to each cylinder when placed in different inlet tract locations.

We have always believe the further away from the throttle the better but I haven't heard any arguement meriting the near-throttle location. I know many have put their nozzle there.

There are enough people on this site using different systems, may be it would be helpful if some experience is shared.

inco9nito99 · Jan 13, 2009, 12:58 PM

Direct port meth injection ALL THE WAY (equal even spray for each cylinder). I've been talking about this way back in the day before I made my own DIY kit for my eclipse on dsmlink forums. Dudical you should try it out, I see zero disadvantages other than price; perhaps you can even run one injector per two cylinders even. I ran an m15 nozzle at 150psi for four years on pump gas and made some serious power (zero issues) but then again this was meth not water which has a different latent heat of evap.

Richard L · Jan 13, 2009, 02:26 PM

Direct port requires a great deal more care on the installation. We aso recommend an additional nozzle at the exit of the intercooler to promote better inlet tract cooling.

dudical26 · Jan 13, 2009, 02:52 PM

Direct port is always one of those things that I want to do but feel I will never get around to. Its kind of a "if it's not broken don't fix it situation. The regular 2x nozzle in the UICP works so well that I don't want to bother. Maybe in the future once I start to run out of other things to do to the car.

4drboost · Jan 13, 2009, 05:46 PM

Wow..............that is a lot of H2o

PhoenixEvo · Jan 13, 2009, 05:52 PM

Good link, thanks for sharing

leecavturbo · Jan 13, 2009, 06:19 PM

i suppose its like fog . its deffo moisture in the air (atomised) but when it comes in contact with cooler or warmer (i forget which) you get condensation!
hey presto.

esevo · Jan 14, 2009, 09:33 AM

Yea the forum is back up!

I believe the owner of the car is using 100% water, in that case I believe the injection point should be further down the pipe to allow for more evaporation, better cyclinder distribution, less left overs and even more cooler temps. Or go direct port and screw evaporation and just focus on incylinder cooling.

As for direct port injection, It requires a special jets with filters and is not easy to set up. To run any kind of methonal, will cause long term damage as the methonal will pool up on top of the valves waiting to go in the cyclinder. To see the best gains out of the set up, you would have to run 100% water and run your car on the edge. Cool if you have a race team to monitor it...

I bought a cheap UPIC from ebay so I could try many jet points, with data log lab I have notice 10- 20 HP difference in jetting locations. Closer than 6 in to the tb I would loose power, even when tuned for the difference. 12-18 in away seem to provide stable and dependable results, consistant run to run. To far (ic exit) seem to provide cooler air temps, but no timing advantage was allowed.

So when your setting up your system jet placment IS crucial along with which mixture your running, and what boost. You change any of those things and you can make a big difference.

Good Luck

Evan Smith

inco9nito99 · Jan 14, 2009, 09:39 AM

^^ I disagree, I ran 30psi on a 35r with a CONSERVATIVE tune on a stock longblock 4g63 making in excess of 500awtq for four HARD years running 100% methanol with a DIY kit I made. Compression/leakdown was on par with OE specs and I had the most fun I've ever had with that car -no issues with corrosion whatsoever. So long as you spray an even distribution and allow for enough space to fully atomize the meth with enough pump pressure, I see no downsides outside of making sure the system works properly.

esevo · Jan 14, 2009, 10:13 AM

Running a 100% meth... No big difference from running race gas or E85 with a really good IC IMO. To say there was no corrosion doesn’t mean there wasn’t. Its fact methanol is corrosive to Aluminum, no way around it.

See though, with direct port injection it’s very very hard to see atomization; there is just not enough space. Even with high pump pressure it’s still going to pool up, which makes for great cylinder cooling but not very effective charge cooling. So at that point the benefit is no different than race gas. Cooling the charged air is very important.

Another fact with H20 when you inject it you have to take out the extra fuel that is used for the cooling of the motor. When you do this you remove CO which was created by the excess fuel. CO which is bad air, when it’s removed it is replaced with good air which is then burned allowing for more power.

I promise you could make the same power and Tq with little to no corrosion out of a 50/50 mixture with just 2 jets properly placed. Direct port will see the best gains out of 100% water. Just like the rally teams do. Whats the point of doing something if your not getting the absolute best gains out of it?

The other factor, you’re in a cold climate, I’m in a hot and dry climate, and waters benefit to me here is much higher than yours. Being that as it is, meth should be a better option for you than me. Water is better for me as I can get H20 to fully evaporate in the heat here.

So many factors, what’s best for you, your car, your tuning, your boost, your jets, your mixtures, may not be best for me. That is why Aquamist and a majority of your injection companies say 50/50 mix with at least 1-2 jets for everyone.

Respectfully

Evan Smith