VP M1 vs M2 Methanol

SOUTHSIDEITALIA · Oct 19, 2008, 05:06 PM

I usually use the M1, but all that is available locally now until next year is the M3. Should I have any problems running the methanol with added lubricants? I would not think so, but just curious. For reference, I am running the AMS alkycontrol pump with upgraded seals. I may also need my tune tweaked to run this with the combustion additives?

From VP website:

METHANOL

M1™
M1 Racing Methanol has a 99.95% minimum purity - the highest purity available in the U.S. With M1, engines run cooler and are less subject to corrosion. VP uses only lined drums which prohibit rust, corrosion and metal deposits that can contaminate fuel delivery systems. Recommended for all methanol-legal racing applications.

M3™
Like M1, M3 starts with methanol of the highest purity, but includes lubrication and combustion additives for an extra boost. M3 offers a wider range of jetting options, making jetting easier and more consistent. For bracket racers, variations in ET from run to run will be substantially reduced. With better tuning and cleaner, more efficient combustion, M3 makes more power and yields better throttle response than any standard methanol on the market. M3's improved combustion also reduces the noxious fumes associated with methanol fuels, so it's much easier on the eyes and nose. For 60-70% of methanol applications, M3 won't require jetting or timing changes-just pour it in and get an immediate performance improvement in all areas. In the other 30-40%, M3's added vaporization may actually hurt volumetric efficiency and performance, which is what lead to the development of M5. M3 is not pure methanol and won't pass a water test.

VividRacing.com · Oct 20, 2008, 03:17 PM

Use M1 its tried and true.

I have used M3 and M5. For tuning ease just use M1

SOUTHSIDEITALIA · Oct 20, 2008, 04:00 PM

Here in lies the problem, I have been tuned with M1 but now only M3 is available here locally. Am I running any risks using the M3 as a replacement without a retune?

Ph3n1x · Oct 21, 2008, 11:39 AM

As per VP Racing, DO NOT use use M3 or M5 for methanol injection. The additional additives are not healthy for the pumps.

When i tested all three, M3 may have been marginally better than M1, but the M5 sucked balls.

Evoryder · Oct 21, 2008, 07:16 PM

m3 /m5 are for those running straight meth in the gas tank. Meth kits stick to m1.

Ph3n1x · Oct 21, 2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evoryder

m3 /m5 are for those running straight meth in the gas tank. Meth kits stick to m1.

exacto

dudical26 · Oct 22, 2008, 10:27 AM

I don't know what kind of kit you are using but Richard of Aquamist has advised NOT to use M3 or M5 or anything with additives as it can ruin the seals in the system.

VividRacing.com · Oct 24, 2008, 10:10 AM

^^^For any HFS system you are correct. The Surflow pump can not stand up to the harshness of the mixture. (mine is the 2D with the Aquamist pump

)

I have played with all mixtures including M5. M5 has potential to make the most "POWER" of all the methonal mixtures however I wont be running the Aquamist race pump for ever (soon upgrading to HFS-5 for the meth 2d for water). It took me hours on the dyno to prove M5 could make 12-15 more whp from the added oxygen it provided, but to do so it made me have to change my tune a lot. (Just not worth it)

Phenixfyah-VP said that because: Most people who are running a injection system are using 100% methonal due to how much more easy it is to extract power from. Being that is the case, 100% methonal being injected into a hot pipe by a nylon hose with 5% nitro can combust. If it did combust you looking at a nasty picture. The nitro will provide enough oxygen to the flame... BOOM, your motor could easly be done. Even worse the whole car including even you depending where the flames starts. Just a big pipe bomb. Evoryder I know you have used 100% M5 with success , Im sure you have taken the precautions necessary to be safe.

Under a 50/50 mixture its a whole lot less volatile. Water helps keep it under control. I have tried to ignite this mixture on fire, before I dared put it in my trunk. No flame. I doubt VP had water as part of the mixture being injected in mind when they wrote this warning.

OP-
M1 methonal is easy and safe, any VP dealer can order M1 you just might have to wait. Chemical supply places usually have %99.99 pure meth try one to see.

Good Luck!

Evan Smith

Evoryder · Oct 24, 2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VividRacing.com

^^^For any HFS system you are correct. The Surflow pump can not stand up to the harshness of the mixture. (mine is the 2D with the Aquamist pump

)

I have played with all mixtures including M5. M5 has potential to make the most "POWER" of all the methonal mixtures however I wont be running the Aquamist race pump for ever (soon upgrading to HFS-5 for the meth 2d for water). It took me hours on the dyno to prove M5 could make 12-15 more whp from the added oxygen it provided, but to do so it made me have to change my tune a lot. (Just not worth it)

Phenixfyah-VP said that because: Most people who are running a injection system are using 100% methonal due to how much more easy it is to extract power from. Being that is the case, 100% methonal being injected into a hot pipe by a nylon hose with 5% nitro can combust. If it did combust you looking at a picture. The nitro will provide enough oxygen to the flame... BOOM, your motor could easly be done. Even worse the whole car including even you depending where the flames starts. Just a big pipe . Evoryder I know you have used 100% M5 with success , Im sure you have taken the precautions necessary to be safe.

Under a 50/50 mixture its a whole lot less volatile. Water helps keep it under control. I have tried to ignite this mixture on fire, before I dared put it in my trunk. No flame. I doubt VP had water as part of the mixture being injected in mind when they wrote this warning.

OP-
M1 methonal is easy and safe, any VP dealer can order M1 you just might have to wait. Chemical supply places usually have %99.99 pure meth try one to see.

Good Luck!

Evan Smith

I was using the nitromethane a few months ago. I stopped using it and switched back to regular M1. Nitro is too expensive...definetly noticed the power difference. I didn't find it too hard to tune. Just had to hold my breath every time i flashed it and went WOT ..hoping my failsafe would prevail should something happen.

VividRacing.com · Oct 24, 2008, 03:28 PM

^^^ Im sure in a 100% injection its very easy to extract the power from the nitro...

50/50 took me longer.

Your right it would get expensive at 100% meth injection. Glad you were safe.

Evan Smith

Evoryder · Oct 24, 2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VividRacing.com

^^^ Im sure in a 100% injection its very easy to extract the power from the nitro...

50/50 took me longer.

Your right it would get expensive at 100% meth injection. Glad you were safe.

Evan Smith

no no no. I was running a 87%Meth/13%Nitrometh mix...the nitrometh is expensive. Regular meth is fine. 5 gal @ $36 I can handle. 1 gal of 55/45 nitrometh mix @ $55 is not cost efficient for me

I'm running 100% straight meth...i definitely noticed a difference in power.

SOUTHSIDEITALIA · Oct 24, 2008, 06:43 PM

Thanks for all the good info guys. I thought the additives would cause a problem. When I first started running methanol, I used some from a friend that ran pure. It smelled like grade Koolaid! I ran a few tanks through and had to upgrade the seals because they were swelling and causing the pump to fail. The upgraded seals will supposedly accommodate the pure stuff. I never went back to it however, and it is still sitting in the garage. Probably need to get rid of it, as it has been a few years! I was told by a few local sources that I cannot get the M1 till next spring. I suppose it is time to start the winter projects of repainting the calipers and maybe the stock wheels.

VividRacing.com · Oct 27, 2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evoryder

no no no. I was running a 87%Meth/13%Nitrometh mix...the nitrometh is expensive. Regular meth is fine. 5 gal @ $36 I can handle. 1 gal of 55/45 nitrometh mix @ $55 is not cost efficient for me

I'm running 100% straight meth...i definitely noticed a difference in power.

What I ment by %100 was no water, I knew you were using nitro

Sorry for the confusion.

$55 is not cost effective, might as well almost run 100 octane every where (almost!)

OP- If your looking for a good place for meth, Autozone sells the Valuecraft -20 degree windshield fluid. It works pretty well for a replacement meth sorce.

Good luck on the winter projects!

Evan Smith