Aquamist and denatured alcohol

Jim in Tucson · May 29, 2007, 07:15 PM

The below quote is Q#8 from the FAQ on the Aquamist web site (emphasis is their's):

8. How do I prevent the water from freezing in winter?
Use a 20% Methanol/water mixture or use "windscreen additives" that contains Methanol (wood alcohol) or Iso-propanol (rubbing alcohol), check it before purchase. Methanol is better than other forms of alcohol and is totally compatible with Aquamist products. Avoid using Ethanol based additives such as De-natured alcohol or Methylated spirit.

This is the only mention of denatured alcohol that I could find on the site. Does this mean not to use denatured alcohol in Aquamist equipment? Or, just not to use denatured alcohol as an antifreeze in a water-only injection system? Am I reading more into this than I should?

Richard L · Jun 2, 2007, 05:34 PM

Sorry, I am a bit slow picking this one out.

The finned aquamist pump can only take methanol unless teflon seals are fitted (we supply them free).

The recently introduced High flow system can use both methanol or denatured ethanol.

Jim in Tucson · Jun 5, 2007, 12:58 PM

So, on the HFS-1 and the HFS-5, 100% denatured alcohol would work A-OK, correct?

With regard to these two systems, will the HFS-5 make more HP? Or, what exactly is the direct benefit/advantage of the HFS-5 over the HFS-1. I understand their operational differences, but what about outcome differences?

Richard L · Jun 6, 2007, 04:10 AM

Yes, HFS systems are based on Methanol compatible shurflo pumps.

The HFS-1 is an on/off, fixed rate system. It is normally set to spray at the correct quantity at the maximum torque region but the effective methanol/fuel ratio will drop as the engine rpm increases. The HFS-5 will continue to maintain the M/F ratio at high RPM.

The outcome: HFS-1 will be good mid-range operation but HFS-5 will work well at the whole engine operating cycle.

Tuning is a great deal simplier with the HFS-5 because there will not be any "holes" on your tuned fuel map. The HFS-5 basically gives you the equivalent of having a high-octane fuel in your tank at all time.

Jim in Tucson · Jun 7, 2007, 07:35 AM

So in theory at least, the HSF-5 should make more HP than the HFS-1 because the AFR can be tuned more accurately, correct? But we are still looking for someone to actually prove that out on a dyno?

Richard L · Jun 7, 2007, 12:58 PM

Yes, that is a far as the theory indicates. I am sure someone will come up with something that proves me wrong. It happens all the time.

So far Abner has made over 80WHP and 100lbft gain on a single point system such as the HFS-1. I am waiting to see anyone making the same of higher gain with the HFS-5. Early days.

Abner did have a earlier start than the HFS-5 users.

Jim in Tucson · Jun 11, 2007, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard L

The outcome: HFS-1 will be good mid-range operation but HFS-5 will work well at the whole engine operating cycle.

Tuning is a great deal simplier with the HFS-5 because there will not be any "holes" on your tuned fuel map.

I can understand having "holes" in an UNtuned fuel map with the HFS-1. However, a good tuner should be able to fill in any "holes" in the fuel map with petrol the same way they would if injectables are not used, correct?

I can, in theory at least, appreciate the better mouse trap concept of the HFS-5, but will it really translate into fewer mice in my flat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard L

The HFS-5 basically gives you the equivalent of having a high-octane fuel in your tank at all time.

With the HFS-5 is the injectable "on" all the time, or only above a MAP set-point?

Richard L · Jun 11, 2007, 11:22 AM

Holes are not "lack of" fuel but lack of "alcohol enriched" fuel. Tuners can plug up the holes with ordinary pump fuel without any problems.

If you compensate it by injecting more, you will being so much fuel out of the standard injector. It is not a problem if you can switch map in the case of "no alcohol"

We are working on a "progressive map clamp" that reads the alcohol flow and cut fuel accordingly. If you run out of alcohol, your engine with be fuelled with only the pump fuel. it will be some time before we bring this out. It will work with the HFS1 to HFS-5. It is a clamp (progressive) with inherent failsafe.

Richard L · Jun 11, 2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in Tucson

With the HFS-5 is the injectable "on" all the time, or only above a MAP set-point?

The HFS-1 or HFS-5 can be set to trigger via boost or fuel duty cycle %. It is not a full time injection system.

It is recommended to trigger the system just above the wastegate setting so that when a fault is detected, the car will default back to wastegate setting with a normal "drivable" fuel map. You can only modify your fuel and ignition map above that setting to be on the safe side.

dudical26 · Jun 11, 2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard L

So far Abner has made over 80WHP and 100lbft gain on a single point system such as the HFS-1. I am waiting to see anyone making the same of higher gain with the HFS-5. Early days.

Correct me if I am wrong but Abner's gains were with methanol spraying un-tuned vs. methanol spraying and being tuned. It is possible that the addition of the methanol without a tune created an overly rich condition for him and decreased his HP. For example he could have been at 300hp without meth. By spraying the meth and not pulling other fuel, he went down to 270hp. Then by pulling fuel and also increasing boost he went up to 350HP. In this case I would say that the methanol really only gained him 50hp. Still a very nice increase.