Integrating the BOV as an additional failsafe

[EVOgasmIX]

I started a thread in Evo Advanced - Water/Alcohol Injection about using the BOV as an additional failsafe. I thought it would be more appropriate there. I'm just cross referencing it here. Check it out:

Link to thread in Evo Advanced - Water/Alcohol Injection

[C6C6CH3vo]

If you allready have a flow sensing device with a 12vdc output, that would be so easy to add - 2 pos, 3 way solenoid. Problem would be the failsafe pressure will only be like 3-4 psi less than normal. Maybe instead of using the BOV, an additional valve installed in the pressure sys with sole function as "pressure dump valve" controlled pneumatically (sol) or electrically.

Originally Posted by EVOgasmIX

Plus, when you have pressure built and dump the wastegate, you stall the turbo, which places increased forces on the turbo.

How often will a system fail and run in this mode? hopefully never. No different than a MBC really

[cpoevo]

Where do you get the vacuum to open the BOV? At 20psi of boost you dont have vacuum to open the BOV because you manifold is pressurized.

[Nez136]

Originally Posted by cpoevo

Where do you get the vacuum to open the BOV? At 20psi of boost you dont have vacuum to open the BOV because you manifold is pressurized.

Hook a line into your intake pipe
Just throwing that out there

[C6C6CH3vo]

Originally Posted by cpoevo

Where do you get the vacuum to open the BOV? At 20psi of boost you dont have vacuum to open the BOV because you manifold is pressurized.

At 20 psi of boost that same 20psi sits at the other end of the diaghram via vacume hose equalizing the pressure so net force is just spring . removing the 20psi at that side will cause the valve to use spring force plus boost to open

Removing that source durring sensed failure while under boost can easily be done with a solenoid energized by flow sensor, but I feel that solenoid would be more effective on the WGA, which enters my argument

[TTP Engineering]

Originally Posted by C6C6CH3vo

At 20 psi of boost that same 20psi sits at the other end of the diaghram via vacume hose equalizing the pressure so net force is just spring . removing the 20psi at that side will cause the valve to use spring force plus boost to open

Removing that source durring sensed failure while under boost can easily be done with a solenoid energized by flow sensor, but I feel that solenoid would be more effective on the WGA, which enters my argument

Agreed. No sense in trying to go out in left field. Run a solenoid bypassing the pressure source directly to the WGA in case of failure.

[EVOgasmIX]

Originally Posted by C6C6CH3vo

If you allready have a flow sensing device with a 12vdc output, that would be so easy to add - 2 pos, 3 way solenoid. Problem would be the failsafe pressure will only be like 3-4 psi less than normal. Maybe instead of using the BOV, an additional valve installed in the pressure sys with sole function as "pressure dump valve" controlled pneumatically (sol) or electrically.

Why have another valve when you already have one? The BOV can have a dual purpose.

Originally Posted by C6C6CH3vo

How often will a system fail and run in this mode? hopefully never. No different than a MBC really

I'm not saying this happens often. I'm just trying list any possible benfits I could think of. When you suddenly dump wastegate while under heavy boost, you stall the turbo. Stalling is not good even if it happens only once. 99.99% of the time nothing bad will ever happen when you stall with little frequency, but you never know...

[EVOgasmIX]

Originally Posted by Nez136

Hook a line into your intake pipe
Just throwing that out there

Exactly. I said this in the other thread.

[EVOgasmIX]

Originally Posted by C6C6CH3vo

Removing that source durring sensed failure while under boost can easily be done with a solenoid energized by flow sensor, but I feel that solenoid would be more effective on the WGA, which enters my argument

I'm suggesting this whole setup to reduce the response time of the failsafe system.

I agree that using the WGA to control this is great way to do this. If I had to choose one I would do the WGA, but if I want something "more better" I would do both.

Let me put it this way: If I did do this system and integrate the BOV into the failsafe along with the WGA, and I suddenly shut the WI off, and I hear the BOV dumping pressure VTA, then that means the WGA wasn't responding fast enough to "beat" the BOVs dumping of pressure. This is why I'm doing this: fast response. If not, then eff it.

This isn't an expensive experiment to do and I don't think I would blow my motor if I had the system setup well to do the normal failsafe way. Plus for the experiement I could run pig rich and retard timing just be safe. But hearing that VTA from that BOV means this system responds faster by having both. I don't think that can be argued.

Plus I would monitor knock readings as I do this experiement. No knock, no foul, right? As long as there are no knock readings, I can "fail" my WI system all day long without problems and bring my timing and AFRs back to normal bit by bit. Plus, I wouldn't be stalling my turbo all day long because of the benfits discussed earlier.

Ah, the things I do for the sake of discovery....

[kduncan01]

As an added failsafe I think this is a good idea and it cant hurt.

Hey EVOgasmIX, here a valve that you could use to control\open the BOV
http://www.macvalves.com/PDFS/36_Series.pdf

It is an extremely fast valve so it should be able to do the job

Kduncan01

[EVOgasmIX]

Originally Posted by kduncan01

As an added failsafe I think this is a good idea and it cant hurt.

Hey EVOgasmIX, here a valve that you could use to control\open the BOV
http://www.macvalves.com/PDFS/36_Series.pdf

It is an extremely fast valve so it should be able to do the job

Kduncan01

Thanks man, I'll look into it.

[C6C6CH3vo]

All you need is an additional BOV to VTA under failsafe that wont leak under boost and a 3 way solenoid (3 ways remove pressure from source energized). I may try this out in addition to WGA