There are failsafes, failsafes and failsafes... - Page 3

EvilBlueEvo8 · Mar 15, 2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC

Hey Guys-
Sorry for the wait on the safeguard.......it's been a freakin zoo here. It looks like it will be a swap to the new v3.0 controller with safeguard built in. This makes for a much neater look than adding another box to graft into the old controller.
The 3.0 controller will have an extra dial to set the safeguard point. (for example 20 psi) If you reach 20 psi and the controller does not sense an alky pressure signal from the pump the safeguard will close a solenoid valve that will mount inline between the wastegate and boost controller. (factory or otherwise) When the valve closes the boost will drop to wastegate spring level. Sound good? Any input from you is appreciated. Will put it up on the website as soon as it is available....and after my main vendors have tested it. Thanks for your patience!
Hope to have prototype pictures up soon.......

What about us V2 users? Can we do some sort of controller swap or something? I haven't even installed my kit yet and wasn't planning on it cause I was under the impression that it was supposed to be an add on and not a replacement piece.

TTP Engineering · Mar 15, 2006, 08:41 AM

Well if I don't ask this, Richard will. Basically as long as the pump is powered, it will allow the car to boost right? So if the pump is only putting out 60psi due to a pump going out, it will STILL allow it to boost, even though the 150psi pump pressure has not been met?

It sounds like about a 10% failsafe. If there was a nozzle clog, inadequate meth flow, inadequate pump pressure, meth leak in the system, these are just a few scenarios that the failsafe would do absolutely nothing to protect against. All of which are equally important failsafe bases to cover.

Please clarify exactly what the system looks for. Just 12V to the pump?

thatsMR2u · Mar 15, 2006, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC

Hey Guys-
Sorry for the wait on the safeguard.......it's been a freakin zoo here. It looks like it will be a swap to the new v3.0 controller with safeguard built in. This makes for a much neater look than adding another box to graft into the old controller.
The 3.0 controller will have an extra dial to set the safeguard point. (for example 20 psi) If you reach 20 psi and the controller does not sense an alky pressure signal from the pump the safeguard will close a solenoid valve that will mount inline between the wastegate and boost controller. (factory or otherwise) When the valve closes the boost will drop to wastegate spring level. Sound good? Any input from you is appreciated. Will put it up on the website as soon as it is available....and after my main vendors have tested it. Thanks for your patience!
Hope to have prototype pictures up soon.......

nice this is what I have been waiting for!!

SlowCar · Mar 15, 2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTP Engineering

Well if I don't ask this, Richard will. Basically as long as the pump is powered, it will allow the car to boost right? So if the pump is only putting out 60psi due to a pump going out, it will STILL allow it to boost, even though the 150psi pump pressure has not been met?

It sounds like about a 10% failsafe. If there was a nozzle clog, inadequate meth flow, inadequate pump pressure, meth leak in the system, these are just a few scenarios that the failsafe would do absolutely nothing to protect against. All of which are equally important failsafe bases to cover.

Please clarify exactly what the system looks for. Just 12V to the pump?

To add to the headache, its a progressive system based upon variable pump speed/variable line pressure

SlowCar · Mar 15, 2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatsMR2u

nice this is what I have been waiting for!!

no its not!

SMC · Mar 15, 2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTP Engineering

Well if I don't ask this, Richard will. Basically as long as the pump is powered, it will allow the car to boost right? So if the pump is only putting out 60psi due to a pump going out, it will STILL allow it to boost, even though the 150psi pump pressure has not been met?

It sounds like about a 10% failsafe. If there was a nozzle clog, inadequate meth flow, inadequate pump pressure, meth leak in the system, these are just a few scenarios that the failsafe would do absolutely nothing to protect against. All of which are equally important failsafe bases to cover.

Please clarify exactly what the system looks for. Just 12V to the pump?

The safegaurd is looking for a pressure signal from the pump pressure switch we use to run the "spray on" lite. This switch is set at 35 psi, which we consider a minimum spray pressure to prevent serious knock. For those of you running really high boost we can add a secondary pressure switch set to whatever psi you'd like.
There are 3 filter screens in the SMC kit before the nozzle......between these and maybe an annual cleaning of the final screen at the nozzle there never should be a clog. Maybe we should hook up a laptop to the system and strap it to the dash so we can obsess over it at all times? Sheesh....

damianhindley · Mar 15, 2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC

The safegaurd is looking for a pressure signal from the pump pressure switch we use to run the "spray on" lite. This switch is set at 35 psi, which we consider a minimum spray pressure to prevent serious knock. For those of you running really high boost we can add a secondary pressure switch set to whatever psi you'd like.
There are 3 filter screens in the SMC kit before the nozzle......between these and maybe an annual cleaning of the final screen at the nozzle there never should be a clog. Maybe we should hook up a laptop to the system and strap it to the dash so we can obsess over it at all times? Sheesh....

LOL, very well said.

SlowCar · Mar 15, 2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damianhindley

LOL, very well said.

Lets see you LOL when your motor blows up. Everything that has been brought up so far are legit concerns. There are a few guys here who spoke about their experience with their motor blowing up when their injection system failed to do what it is suppose to ........it will be over so quick, you wouldnt even believe it

TTP Engineering · Mar 16, 2006, 08:19 AM

All these guy that think that that safeguard is adequate, must know nothing about meth injection nor the dangers of a system failure. 35psi on an SMC 7gph (small) jet is about enough to cover 23-24psi, not the 26-34psi that the stock turbo is capable of. Lets not butter up a protection system that lacks adequate protection, regardless of the manufacturer.

Ultimate CC · Mar 20, 2006, 09:32 PM

I am running the Snow Peformance kit with failsafe and for the money its a pretty good failsafe, combined with my wideband and UTEC I am pretty safe from blowing my motor.

C6C6CH3vo · Mar 21, 2006, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate CC

I am running the Snow Peformance kit with failsafe and for the money its a pretty good failsafe, combined with my wideband and UTEC I am pretty safe from blowing my motor.

So you got the SI fault trigger to both timing and WGA sol?

Ultimate CC · Mar 21, 2006, 07:14 AM

I have my UTEC pull massive amounts of timing if there is a knock count above 3

Richard L · Mar 26, 2006, 07:13 AM

In order for a WI failsafe system to be effective, it has to be a all rounder and stand-alone affair, or should not be advertised as failsafe or it will mis-lead the Joe public.

Minimum requirement for a failsafe to be effective:

1) Blocked jets complete or partial.
2) System pressure drop
3) Flow descrepancy
4) Overflow (due to leaky or loosen hose connection)

A tall order, but your engine would be grateful for that extra contribution. So read all small prints and ask directly question before accepting the word "failsafe" loosely - delve deeper to find out how it works and see if it gives you adequate cover for your application. Don't forget, you are on your own when things go wrong and no one to blame for.

Richard

Ultimate CC · Mar 26, 2006, 03:11 PM

Nice points there. Definitely something people should consider.

C6C6CH3vo · Mar 26, 2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard L

In order for a WI failsafe system to be effective, it has to be a all rounder and stand-alone affair, or should not be advertised as failsafe or it will mis-lead the Joe public.

Minimum requirement for a failsafe to be effective:

1) Blocked jets complete or partial.
2) System pressure drop
3) Flow descrepancy
4) Overflow (due to leaky or loosen hose connection)

A tall order, but your engine would be grateful for that extra contribution. So read all small prints and ask directly question before accepting the word "failsafe" loosely - delve deeper to find out how it works and see if it gives you adequate cover for your application. Don't forget, you are on your own when things go wrong and no one to blame for.

Richard

For my system, if flow drops below 180ml/min while pump on, my WGA will see boost pressure via solenoid coil. Not to mention 24 psi max boost is all I will run.

I know it's really just half safed but it's better than some other kits advertised as "safe" I see (even the most popular) . Another thing important is how anal the installer is with the project.

The WI system itself at 25psi can be considered a failsafe against bad gas at 21 psi W/O WI.