Captured a UTEC log - help me understand ...

mikesevo8 · Jun 18, 2007, 04:13 PM

I have the UTEC program 1 set up to basically be a pseudo passthru mode.
The timing map is set to all ECU, and the fuel map is all zeros, so this allows the ECUs current flash to control them.

I did a 3rd gear pull, and was surprised to see the high knock count at 5K. I didn't "feel" anything happen.
Here is the log:

Code:

       EXT           Load Knock                Mod   Mod          Mod
 RPM   MAP   MAF TPS Site Count  Ign#1  Inj#1  Ign   Fuel Boost   MAF
       psia   Hz  %               deg   duty   deg    %   (OL)     Hz
 
 4065  -9.0  146  15  00    00   +41.2    7.4 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    150
 4070  -9.0  164  17  00    00   +41.0    7.6 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    188
 4095  -8.8  198  19  00    00   +38.9    8.7 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    214
 4100  -8.3  210  20  00    00   +37.9    9.2 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    210
 4084  -7.8  211  20  00    00   +37.9   11.8 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    221
 4095  -7.3  230  21  00    00   +36.9   10.2 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    236
 4145  -6.9  293  24  00    00   +32.9   11.8 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    307
 4166  -5.9  434  32  00    00   +29.8   16.8 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    437
 4214  -4.0  596  57  10    00   +27.0   18.9 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    592
 4295  -1.4  720 100  20    00   +20.9   26.1 ECU.   +0.0  75.00  636
 4334  +1.9  899 100  30    00   +14.9   31.3 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1016
 4474  +5.6 1098 100  50    00   +10.8   36.8 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1131
 4604  +9.4 1315 100  70    00    +8.0   45.7 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1445
 4741 +13.9 1483 100  90    00    +8.0   57.1 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1633
 4901 +18.6 1547 100 100    00    +8.0   59.8 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1666
 5081 +22.9 1754 100 100    17    +6.1   60.4 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1773
 5232 +25.9 1805 100 100    00    +6.2   63.0 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1773
 5402 +27.6 1908 100 100    00    +5.9   64.6 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1865
 5583 +28.3 1858 100 100    00    +6.2   63.6 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2016
 5767 +28.3 1923 100 100    00    +7.3   66.6 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1798
 5899 +28.1 1915 100 100    00    +8.3   67.7 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1851
 6071 +27.6 1960 100 100    00    +9.5   67.4 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1953
 6207 +27.4 1984 100 100    00    +9.5   68.0 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1984
 6349 +27.1 2008 100 100    00   +11.0   69.2 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1908
 6535 +26.6 2016 100 100    00   +11.0   71.7 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2136
 6653 +26.2 2016 100 100    00   +12.2   70.6 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2083
 6775 +25.9 2040 100 100    00   +13.2   72.3 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2066
 6944 +25.5 2049 100 100    00   +14.3   69.8 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2100
 7092 +25.2 2040 100 100    04   +14.4   69.2 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1984
 7168 +25.0 2066 100 100    02   +12.5   70.2 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1953
 7326 +24.8 2074 100 100    00   +13.5   70.8 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2032
 7440 +24.5 2092 100 100    00   +14.0   68.0 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2118
 7575 +24.3 2074 100 100    00   +13.8   67.1 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2032
 7716 +24.0 2074 100 100    00   +13.7   68.6 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2016
 7770 +24.0 2100  90 100    00   +13.4   71.2 ECU.   +0.0  75.00  144
 7627 +19.8  167  10  00    00   +38.8   10.0 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     94
 7122 +12.0  107   4  00    00   +38.5   11.5 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    176
 6587  +3.0   91   0  00    00   +38.5    8.9 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    168
 5546  -6.2   75   0  00    00   +38.4    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     64
 5592 -11.4   58   0  00    00   +28.3    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     47
 5518 -12.5   77   0  00    00   +28.4    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    303
 5527 -12.5   59   0  00    00   +28.4    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     61
 5500 -12.5   69   0  00    00   +28.4    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     66
 5473 -12.5   68   0  00    00   +28.5    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     71
 5065 -12.3   67   0  00    00   +28.3    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     68
 4668 -12.3   65   0  00    00   +25.0    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     61
 4312 -12.1   68   0  00    00   +23.9    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     61
 3996 -11.8   66   0  00    00   +21.0    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     65
 3699 -11.6   64   0  00    00   +20.9    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     56
 3762 -11.6   63   0  00    00   +20.9    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     61
 3770 -11.4   61   0  00    00   +20.9    7.1 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     62

What does the high knock count mean (other than the obvious )???
How does the count observed by the UTEC correlate to the knock count the ECU saw ???
Can you correlate the two ???

EvoTech · Jun 18, 2007, 07:27 PM

Without a wideband, it is hard to say. You may have a lean spot there. You are spending way too much time at 100% load. You got something set up wrong there.

mikesevo8 · Jun 18, 2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvoTech

Without a wideband, it is hard to say. You may have a lean spot there. You are spending way too much time at 100% load. You got something set up wrong there.

Yeah, I got to get a tactix cable and Jack's software, so I can tie in my wideband.
I am also having troubles with my SMC kit. If it's taking longer than usual to come on full, I suppose I could end
up with a lean spot at the start of the pull, and that's kinda what it looks like.

I'm curious...why do you say I am spending too much too in the 100 load cell??
The car is WOT, pulling like a freight train to redline. It seems that's the cell to be in until the pull is over.

Any comments about how to interpret the UTEC knock count vs. the ECU knock count ???

DCsleeper · Jun 18, 2007, 08:40 PM

What EvoTech means I think is that it looks like you have max maf setting set to 1700. Basically, you are sitting in the last column of the load matrix even though your actual maf continues to rise. Basically, you don't have another load cell to move into.

Hope I explained that clear enough. Basically, you have to set up the load matrix up so that you rarely hit 100% load so that when you do the ECU knows what to do.

Of course in this instance it really doesn't matter since the UTEC isn't doing anything except logging data. What is controlling boost?

There are tons of posts regarding this in the UTEC forum. What are you using as a load reference, boost or maf?

Just out of curiosity what turbo is that?

DCsleeper · Jun 18, 2007, 08:52 PM

And the knock count...depends on if the settings were messed with. Typically, a knock count of 3 on the UTEC is the point at which it would pull timing if you were using the UTEC to control things.

mikesevo8 · Jun 18, 2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCsleeper

What EvoTech means I think is that it looks like you have max maf setting set to 1700. Basically, you are sitting in the last column of the load matrix even though your actual maf continues to rise. Basically, you don't have another load cell to move into.

Hope I explained that clear enough. Basically, you have to set up the load matrix up so that you rarely hit 100% load so that when you do the ECU knows what to do.

Of course in this instance it really doesn't matter since the UTEC isn't doing anything except logging data. What is controlling boost?

There are tons of posts regarding this in the UTEC forum. What are you using as a load reference, boost or maf?

Just out of curiosity what turbo is that?

OK, I see what you are saying about the load point. I will check the parameters. 1700 may be default for a stock VIII turbo.
If I change the MAF max to 2100, the load point value will be more accurate.
The load point can be ignored at this point, as the UTEC really isn't controlling anything.
I am just logging with it for now. Wish I had a Tuner Pro so I can tie in the wideband.
But a tactrix cable is cheaper, so I will probably go that route.

I have a HKS EVC V to control boost. Load reference is MAF I believe. The turbo is an FP 20GLT.

DCsleeper · Jun 19, 2007, 04:59 AM

I would look around if you are really interested in a Tuner. The way people have been abandening thier UTECs there should be allot of Tuners out there really cheap.

dryad001 · Jun 19, 2007, 05:27 AM

Actually, I have a Tuner Pro for sale. Shoot me a price.

BoostN · Jun 19, 2007, 06:48 AM

On your SMC kit, do you have the trunk mount or under the hood? If using 100% methenol, I have seen the meth begin to boil in the rez under the hood. Changing to 50/50 solved the problem, and a trunk mount rez also solves the problem. This is only a guess as to why you would knock so much and then be "knock free" for most of the rest of the pull. A WB you would see a lean spot from when the meth pump vapor locked if the meth was at boiling point.

BoostN · Jun 19, 2007, 06:52 AM

Oh, also be advised that you will have no knock correction from the utec when running map 0, your stock ecu will handle the knock and I have found that the stock ecu is much more "smooth" at doing so. I have gotten up to a 17 count with evoscan and "felt" nothing, yet can feel the timing retard on utec correction with as small 3 count. Feels like a small hesitation in the power band.
L8
How that helps some

mikesevo8 · Jun 19, 2007, 08:33 AM

Thanks BoostN. I have the underhood kit. I believe I am having problems with the pump, as I am only seeing
about 60psi on the guage when hitting the test button. I use denatured alchohol.
I want to replace the pump, but not with another flojet.
Yeah - I think the ECU musta handled the knock OK, as it only registered for one log cycle.
I tend to think with my pump problems, what I saw is what Evotech said, a lean condition because the pump was lagging.
Plus I was running real high boost >28psi. I am going to turn the max on setting down, so that the kit hits
full spray sooner to help overcome the pump lag.

Lowell787 · Jun 19, 2007, 05:46 PM

Do you have injectors as well? THe Injector Duty cycle number seem low for the amount of boost you're running.

mikesevo8 · Jun 19, 2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowell787

Do you have injectors as well? THe Injector Duty cycle number seem low for the amount of boost you're running.

Yes, Greddy 660s. Ithought the WOT duty cycle was kinda low even for 660s.
I have seen threads where people were saying they were maxing out 660s.
This shows a lot of room still.

mikesevo8 · Jun 19, 2007, 05:54 PM

Chagned the max setting for the SMC kit down to 22psi. The 15 count knock at 5K disappeared. Encouraging.
I still have the small counts at 6800-7K

mikesevo8 · Jun 19, 2007, 07:57 PM

Here is a log from a quick pull today, with some knock starting up high:

Code:

       EXT           Load Knock                Mod   Mod          Mod
 RPM   MAP   MAF TPS Site Count  Ign#1  Inj#1  Ign   Fuel Boost   MAF
       psia   Hz  %               deg   duty   deg    %   (OL)     Hz

 3264  -4.0  240  21  00    00   +35.6   10.4 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    239
 3303  -3.8  288  24  00    00   +32.7   10.2 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    299
 3340  -3.1  454  44  10    00   +27.7   17.6 ECU.   +0.0  75.00  453
 3397  -1.2  506 100  10    00   +20.7   17.1 ECU.   +0.0  75.00  694
 3454  +0.7  556 100  20    00   +18.5   20.7 ECU.   +0.0  75.00  838
 3580  +3.3  715 100  20    00   +14.7   24.2 ECU.   +0.0  75.00  620
 3658  +5.4  793 100  30    00   +11.5   27.8 ECU.   +0.0  75.00  615
 3796  +7.5  904 100  40    00    +9.4   31.2 ECU.   +0.0  75.00  716
 3894 +10.1 1012 100  50    00    +8.6   36.9 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1213
 4050 +13.0 1149 100  60    00    +7.8   39.4 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1077
 4161 +16.0 1312 100  70    00    +7.8   47.3 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1366
 4368 +19.1 1529 100  80    00    +7.9   52.4 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1412
 4510 +22.4 1628 100  90    00    +7.8   55.0 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1121
 4721 +25.2 1552 100 100    00    +7.9   58.2 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1420
 4866 +27.1 1712 100 100    00    +8.0   56.5 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1381
 5042 +28.1 1712 100 100    00    +8.1   57.8 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1677
 5241 +28.3 1818 100 100    00    +7.7   64.8 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1736
 5411 +28.3 1851 100 100    00    +8.3   62.9 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1908
 5611 +28.3 1930 100 100    00    +8.2   65.3 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1724
 5737 +28.1 1893 100 100    00    +9.1   64.4 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1838
 5920 +27.8 1915 100 100    00   +11.2   65.3 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2000
 6071 +27.4 1960 100 100    00   +11.3   67.0 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1984
 6218 +27.1 2000 100 100    00   +11.4   69.5 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1953
 6373 +26.9 2008 100 100    00   +11.9   68.8 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2016
 6497 +26.6 2049 100 100    00   +11.9   71.7 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2016
 6640 +26.4 2032 100 100    04   +13.3   69.0 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 2032
 6816 +25.9 2040 100  90    15   +12.1   68.7 ECU.   +0.0  75.00 1968
 6720 +23.1  465  10  00    00   +38.5    9.0 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     75
 6600 +15.3   68   5  00    00   +38.5   10.2 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     77
 6653  +5.9  104   0  00    00   +38.5    8.2 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.    134
 6613  -3.6  105   0  00    00   +38.7    8.7 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     46
 6600 -10.6   71   0  00    00   +28.6    9.0 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     92
 6253 -12.5   58   0  00    00   +28.6    9.0 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     43
 5797 -13.0   61   0  00    00   +28.5    9.0 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     53
 5341 -13.0   68   0  00    00   +28.3    9.0 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     81
 4859 -12.8   64   0  00    00   +27.2    9.0 ECU.   +0.0 ECU.     66

I understand the knock at the higher rpms. When the evo was last tuned, the boost would start high, but fade
to 21-22 psi at the end. The current tune works great for the condition the car was in.
Now, after fixing a ton of leaks, the boost is holding 4-5psi higher at the top, as seen in the log.

Now ... this is where the UTEC will come in handy. I can go back and get my flash tune tweaked ... OR ...
I can use the fuel table to add some go juice back in on top, and see if that gets rid of the knock.
I'm anxious to start fiddling ...

BTW - which is better to use as the load reference, MAF or MAP ????
I currently have the UTEC using MAP, with the min/max set to 0/26psi ( I should probably up it to 0/30).
FYI - it was set to 0/20, which explains why the first log is in 100% load point for so long.