hit wall while tuning last night (log attached)

DCsleeper · Jan 2, 2007, 07:59 PM

Well here goes....

2754, +4.9, 467, 95, 10, 00, +8.2, 21.5,ECU. , -0.6, 65.00, 366, 12.56
2787, +6.5, 495,100, 10, 00, +6.4, 24.5,ECU. , -0.5, 65.00, 512, 12.21
2876, +8.6, 566,100, 10, 00, +4.3, 27.0,ECU. , -0.6, 65.00, 673, 11.93
2962,+12.7, 705,100, 10, 00, +3.0, 33.6,ECU. , -0.8, 65.00, 809, 11.33
3038,+15.5, 759,100, 10, 00, +0.3, 35.1,ECU. , -1.0, 65.00, 984, 11.27
3060,+17.8, 761,100, 10, 00, -1.7, 34.8,ECU. , -1.2, 65.00, 776, 11.18
3083,+20.1, 759,100, 20, 00, +1.7, 39.1, +5.2, +0.3, 65.00, 880, 11.12
3290,+22.6, 770,100, 20, 00, +1.1, 38.2, +4.6, +0.7, 65.00, 862, 11.45
3443,+23.1, 843,100, 20, 00, +0.9, 46.7, +4.8, +0.6, 65.00,1077, 11.30
3512,+23.1, 874,100, 30, 00, +1.1, 45.4, +5.4, +2.0, 65.00,1012, 11.42
3538,+23.3, 829,100, 30, 00, +2.3, 45.6, +5.6, +2.0, 65.00,1213, 11.43
3757,+23.1, 945,100, 30, 00, +1.4, 54.2, +5.9, +1.1, 65.00, 733, 11.23
3783,+22.8, 934,100, 30, 00, +2.6, 43.5, +6.2, +1.8, 65.00, 880, 11.08
3894,+22.6, 902,100, 30, 00, +3.3, 45.4, +6.5, +1.5, 65.00,1086, 11.08
3972,+22.6, 963,100, 40, 00, +3.2, 45.0, +6.7, -7.2, 65.00, 892, 11.17
3996,+22.4,1002,100, 40, 00, +4.6, 49.6, +7.0, -1.6, 65.00,1131, 11.18
4145,+22.6, 986,100, 40, 00, +4.4, 48.1, +7.0, -3.2, 65.00, 922, 11.18
4171,+22.6,1024,100, 40, 00, +4.6, 47.2, +7.0, -5.6, 65.00,1106, 11.27
4235,+22.1,1046,100, 40, 00, +5.7, 47.7, +7.0, -8.0, 67.00, 957, 11.48
4312,+22.8,1098,100, 40, 00, +5.7, 54.2, +7.0, -7.7, 67.00,1131, 11.56
4380,+22.8,1113,100, 50, 00, +4.5, 54.6, +7.0, -6.7, 67.00,1068, 11.42
4474,+23.5,1146,100, 50, 00, +4.5, 56.8, +7.0,-11.5, 67.00,1054, 11.33
4528,+24.0,1173,100, 50, 00, +4.2, 57.1, +7.1, -7.9, 67.00,1157, 11.27
4616,+23.5,1193,100, 50, 00, +6.6, 57.6, +7.5, -9.3, 67.00,1126, 11.24
4714,+23.3,1222,100, 50, 00, +6.4, 57.5, +7.8,-13.8, 67.00,1063, 11.33
4768,+22.8,1213,100, 60, 00, +6.8, 59.0, +8.1,-10.7, 68.00,1091, 11.39
4852,+22.4,1259,100, 60, 00, +7.0, 59.5, +8.4,-11.3, 68.00,1146, 11.39
4901,+22.6,1291,100, 60, 00, +7.9, 61.0, +8.7,-11.7, 68.00,1152, 11.42
4982,+22.6,1344,100, 60, 00, +8.7, 61.5, +8.9,-12.9, 68.00,1237, 11.45
5128,+23.1,1329,100, 60, 00, +8.1, 62.7, +9.2,-12.6, 68.00,1131, 11.49
5151,+24.0,1377,100, 70, 00, +8.1, 64.9, +9.2,-11.8, 68.00,1231, 11.49
5359,+23.7,1453,100, 60, 00, +7.8, 68.4, +9.3, -9.9, 71.00,1322, 13.65
2773, +1.9, 373, 32, 00, 00, +20.6, 25.1,ECU. , -2.1, 32.00, 408, 13.53
2815, +2.8, 405, 39, 10, 00, +13.5, 19.2,ECU. , -0.5, 39.00, 403, 13.39

First off I know my boost is high....Apparently the change in temp between the afternoon and night caused them to jump about a psi...this is a fourth gear pull up a fairly steep incline (on-ramp).

My question is that right at 5359 it felt like I hit a wall...my first thought that it could have been my knock but no log of it...then I thought maybe it was my boost cut setings but those are set at 25psi and 1800Hz...only thing that I can think of is that the MAF limit is actually a curve? Anyone have any suggestions what may have happened?

dubbleugly01 · Jan 2, 2007, 08:51 PM

my tuner seems to lag a bit in 02 reading. For instance, at 5359 rpms, it looks like you're still WOT and look at your a/f's. I'd say that 13.65 occured at about 5200 rpms and is sucking out your power. Good thing you let out of the gas, that is dangerously lean.

DCsleeper · Jan 2, 2007, 10:29 PM

somthing is not right about that last WOT line. There is no way that the 13.?? is right....look at the injection duty cycle it actually goes up there....The only way that the AFR could get leaner is if it lost pressure...hence leaning toward boost cut but oviously something is lagging either the map sensor, tps sensor, or the afr...?

dubbleugly01 · Jan 2, 2007, 10:37 PM

lost the spark maybe? If you blew out the spark, there would be a lot of excess 02 in the exhaust

DCsleeper · Jan 2, 2007, 11:09 PM

interesting....possibly some kind of ignition cutoff....that would make sense for the way it felt....basically falling flat on its face....

What would cause an ignition cut?

DCsleeper · Jan 3, 2007, 10:20 AM

One more tidbit of information ....EGTs never got above 1500 F during this pull...

Still looking for any ideas of what might have happened.

dubbleugly01 · Jan 3, 2007, 05:35 PM

so it sounds like it was a complete loss of power, and not just a miss? If that's the case, that is odd. A bad miss could be too high a plug gap or a weak/bad coil (how many miles on the coils?). DLI-2? Those seem to have a limited life, like 1 yr. per a couple threads here on evom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCsleeper

One more tidbit of information ....EGTs never got above 1500 F during this pull...

Still looking for any ideas of what might have happened.

DCsleeper · Jan 4, 2007, 10:07 AM

Definety not just a miss......basically killed all power. It felt like a boost cut so what I am thinking now is that ....it hit my boost limit set at 25psi just never logged it due to a lag.....

That is the only thing that i can think of...real scary when it happens but cars runs great now.....turned down the boost quite a bit for cold nights.

I need to do some more experimenting because I am not sure if the increased boost was due solely to the change in temp or the changes that I made to the map by leaning out quite a few cells and messing with the timing a bit.

Hard to believe that a change in temp of ~30 degrees would change the boost level by 2 psi....or maybe it is and I am just hoping....I would hate to have to use 3 maps a week for various changes in temp....

EvoTech · Jan 4, 2007, 04:40 PM

Sounds like you hit boost cut and the logger just could not keep up and thus was not able to show it in real time. What are your plugs gapped at? The only other possibility is what was metntioned about the spark blowing out. It was probably a good thing b/c 25 PSI on pump is a little dangerous. Also 1500 degrees seems a bit hot. I would like to see your timing map because it is not your AFR causing your EGTs to be this high.

DCsleeper · Jan 4, 2007, 07:38 PM

Any comments would be appreciated EvoTech...

Here is my latest log from tuning last night 3rd gear....uphill

1965, +2.4, 253, 99, 10, 00, +15.0, 10.9,ECU. , -1.6, 68.00, 265, 12.74
2027, +2.8, 263,100, 10, 00, +14.2, 11.0,ECU. , -2.3, 68.00, 225, 12.34
2150, +4.0, 296,100, 10, 00, +13.2, 12.4,ECU. , -1.9, 68.00, 304, 12.59
2259, +4.4, 318,100, 10, 00, +12.2, 13.3,ECU. , -1.5, 68.00, 288, 12.67
2289, +4.9, 333,100, 10, 00, +12.2, 14.4,ECU. , -1.6, 68.00, 378, 12.64
2410, +5.6, 353,100, 10, 00, +12.2, 14.9,ECU. , -1.8, 68.00, 326, 12.52
2560, +7.0, 416,100, 10, 00, +8.7, 17.5,ECU. , -1.7, 68.00, 392, 12.39
2606, +7.6, 429,100, 10, 00, +8.7, 19.1,ECU. , -1.4, 68.00, 478, 12.37
2734, +8.3, 485,100, 10, 00, +7.7, 20.8,ECU. , -0.8, 68.00, 517, 12.21
2787, +9.3, 513,100, 10, 00, +6.0, 23.8,ECU. , -0.6, 68.00, 518, 12.06
2888,+10.4, 585,100, 10, 00, 26.0, ECU., ,68.00, 481, 116, 00.00
2992,+11.6, 657,100, 10, 00, +5.2, 29.7,ECU. , -1.0, 68.00, 641, 11.53
3103,+13.2, 764,100, 10, 00, +4.3, 33.7,ECU. , -1.2, 68.00, 806, 11.45
3267,+15.2, 850,100, 10, 00, +2.4, 38.9,ECU. , -1.3, 68.00, 902, 11.30
3384,+17.5, 915,100, 20, 00, +2.4, 42.2, +4.8, +0.0, 68.00, 673, 11.06
3683,+21.7, 974,100, 30, 00, +1.4, 54.2, +6.3, +3.8, 68.00,1256, 11.37
3875,+22.4, 970,100, 30, 00, +3.4, 41.8, +6.8, +3.1, 68.00, 862, 11.14
3972,+22.4,1030,100, 40, 00, +4.9, 52.7, +7.5, +0.0, 69.00, 954, 10.89
4125,+21.9,1077,100, 40, 00, +4.9, 47.8, +7.5, -6.1, 69.00,1131, 11.01
4480,+22.1,1168,100, 40, 00, +4.8, 55.3, +7.5, -6.7, 69.00,1072, 11.18
4629,+21.9,1170,100, 50, 00, +6.3, 55.2, +7.8,-10.5, 69.00,1136, 11.14
4721,+22.1,1225,100, 50, 00, +8.2, 55.1, +8.4,-14.3, 70.00, 984, 11.12
4866,+21.9,1278,100, 50, 00, +9.3, 56.5, +9.0,-13.5, 70.00,1068, 11.14
5159,+21.4,1366,100, 60, 00, +9.9, 62.2, +9.5,-12.8, 70.00,1225, 11.11
5282,+21.4,1385,100, 60, 00, +9.0, 61.7, +9.5,-12.4, 71.00,1308, 11.08
5428,+21.9,1420,100, 70, 00, +8.8, 64.7, +9.5, -9.1, 71.00,1396, 11.20
5592,+21.7,1483,100, 70, 00, +9.0, 67.5, +9.9, -9.4, 72.00,1381, 11.20
5698,+21.9,1466,100, 70, 00, +11.0, 67.8,+10.7, -9.9, 72.00,1344, 11.08
5858,+21.7,1547,100, 80, 00, +12.3, 68.4,+11.7, -9.5, 73.00,1308, 11.12
5973,+21.0,1529,100, 80, 00, +12.5, 69.8,+13.2, -9.2, 73.00,1497, 11.11
6093,+21.0,1562,100, 80, 00, +12.6, 70.9,+14.1, -9.6, 74.00,1412, 10.96
6218,+20.3,1612,100, 80, 00, +14.1, 73.5,+14.7, -9.9, 77.00,1404, 11.05
6337,+20.8,1644,100, 80, 00, +15.1, 75.0,+15.4, -9.3, 77.00,1479, 11.20
6447,+20.3,1661,100, 90, 00, +15.1, 78.3,+16.0, -7.6, 77.00,1479, 11.18
6613,+21.2,1706,100, 90, 00, +16.0, 78.9,+16.8, -8.4, 79.00,1623, 11.11
6693,+21.9,1718,100, 90, 00, +16.2, 78.5,+17.2, -8.1, 79.00,1552, 11.08
6802,+21.4,1718,100, 90, 00, +18.4, 77.6,+18.2, -8.8, 79.00,1562, 11.12
6930,+21.9,1724,100,100, 00, +18.5, 80.3,+19.6, -7.6, 79.00,1488, 11.17
7002,+21.0,1689,100,100, 00, +19.6, 80.1,+21.0, -7.5, 79.00,1612, 11.18
7122,+21.2,1700,100,100, 00, +20.3, 80.0,+21.0, -7.2, 79.00,1677, 11.01
7183,+21.4,1724,100,100, 00, +20.2, 79.5,+21.0, -5.4, 79.00,1612, 10.86
7342,+22.4,1700,100,100, 00, +20.4, 81.4,+21.0, -6.7, 79.00,1592, 11.01

The egt temp for this run peaked at 1500F also....I have the sensor in 1st runner about 2" from the block. 1500 is actually the norm for my car during hard pulls...plugs are gapped to .026

attached is my latest map

EvoTech · Jan 5, 2007, 08:18 AM

I really don't know to be honest. Your timing map look a little "jumpy" but nothing too aggresive. You must have just touched boost cut on the run in question.

mad_VIII · Jan 5, 2007, 10:25 AM

I thought factory ecu boost cut was disabled with the utec, when I was using mine, I would get the overboost code set often, but never actually hit boost cut.

Been a while since I looked at a utec, but isn't there a setting in the utec for boost cut maf hz??

DCsleeper · Jan 5, 2007, 10:45 AM

Mad,

yes there is ....it is in the parameters mine is set at 1800 Hz

DCsleeper · Jan 5, 2007, 10:51 AM

Any suggestions about where I can make more power with this tune....I know that every car is different....but typically would I have better luck leaning out the fuel curve or increasing timing???

I have really learned allot on this forum and hate seeing the trend lately ....basically no new posts

mad_VIII · Jan 5, 2007, 01:43 PM

well, you are already in the 11:1 range so I don't think you will get much more by going leaner and the timing looks agresive up top from my perspective (I don't run more than 17* at 7500, any more than that and the ecu starts picking up knock all over the place and pulling timing).

From looking at your log though it does not look like the stock ecu is picking up much knock. You may want to invest in a tractrix cable and get a copy of mitsuloger from aktivematrix (MalibuJack's site) and do some logging just to see what the stock ecu thinks is going on from a knock perspective.

Also, invest in some dyno time so you can see the affects of various tuning changes.