Events - Please Read

[RobertK]

Events
• An event is considered “For-Profit” if money is collected to attend or participate
• For-Profit events must be authorized by the EvolutionM advertising staff and may require a vendor package. Contact one of the Staff for approval.
• For-Profit events that will not require a vendor package include motorsports events and shows that specifically include Lancers. These events may not be used as a tool to promote any other non vendor business.
• Local and National meets, BBQs, etc must not reference any non vendor business.
• Dynos days, tuning days, and other paid service event require a vendor account
• Exceptions – Members may discuss any event as long as they are not promoting it on behalf of themselves or another party.

This came down from the EvoM Staff over a year ago, So if you have any questions on why some events are being deleted and some aren't, my reasoning is somehow tied to the above rules.

[johnny]

I was looking for the octobet 19 and 20 meet and read this and understand why it was deleted. You did delete it right?

[j8]

Originally Posted by RobertK

Events
• An event is considered “For-Profit” if money is collected to attend or participate
• For-Profit events must be authorized by the EvolutionM advertising staff and may require a vendor package. Contact CharlesJ for approval.
• For-Profit events that will not require a vendor package include motorsports events and shows that specifically include Lancers. These events may not be used as a tool to promote any other non vendor business.
• Local and National meets, BBQs, etc must not reference any non vendor business.
• Dynos days, tuning days, and other paid service event require a vendor account
• Exceptions – Members may discuss any event as long as they are not promoting it on behalf of themselves or another party.

This came down from the EvoM Staff over a year ago, So if you have any questions on why some events are being deleted and some aren't, my reasoning is somehow tied to the above rules.

Understood. Is it OK for us to create a new thread with no reference to shops? Sorry if I broke the rules with our SA meet thread. I did not think is was, but apparently it was. The meet was not created to promote a shop. They just kind of offered up some food and gifts, since half the guys are good friends with the owner.

[RobertK]

Yeah as long as it doesn't promote a non-vendor shop or cost anything to be there, it's fine.

If it does cost to be there, you just have to get permission from CharlesJ to post it.

[mrMTB]

RobertK,

To preface, I'm not trying to stir anything up, or call anyone out. I have some genuine concerns about the above, and feel that I would be doing a dis-service to the entire community by not airing my concerns.

I think that some additional time and thought needs to be put into the above criteria. There is some considerable ambiguity in what is written there. I would be more than happy to illuminate these here, or in a private conversation if you and the other moderators would prefer. What I would like to avoid, however, is a set of conditions that would lead two reasonable persons coming to opposite, yet seemingly logical and defendable, positions on a particular event's falling within or afoul of the above.

Additionally, if this policy is going to be enforced in one region's section, it is imperative that it is uniformly applied to all of the regions. I did note that none of the other regional forums I looked through earlier had this criteria stickyed, and there were plenty of posts that ran afoul of the above- certainly more so than my interpretation of the Evo Maxx or South Texas events going on this weekend.

Again, I'm certainly happy to take this to a private conversation with you and the other moderators if you'd prefer we not discuss this here.

M

[RobertK]

MTB, I'm not a moderator of the other regional forums, this has been one of the moderator rules to follow since Aug 2006, I just decided to copy it over here to let the people in my section know of my decisions concerning event threads. These rulings came down from CharlesJ

[mrMTB]

OK, I understand that. So what portion of the Evo Maxx thread fell afoul of the above? It's my understanding that Don Herring and Gotham are both vendors, despite the fact that neither of them were benefiting in a direct manner from the event... Motorsports Ranch, while removed from the thread, would have been exempted anyway since it was a motorsport event specifically including Lancers.

[RobertK]

I'm not 100% certain that I was the one that got the evo maxx thread.

And Motorsports Ranch would not be allow due to the 4th bullet. They constantly try to promote business there, so the 3rd bullet doesn't apply to them.

[mrMTB]

That's asinine, Robert. Any motorsport event that does not reference a specific track would fall under the heading of street racing.

If Motorsport Ranch were asking us to hold this here, I could see it falling under bullet four and not three, but the truth of the matter is that this is really no different than saying- hey we're getting together at xyz restaurant tonight for a little get together.

[RobertK]

The difference with the motorsports ranch is they have people that actively advertise on here and refuse to get a vendor package, restaurants don't for the most part.

The few restaurants that have advertised have got points and told not to.

[KevinD]

Originally Posted by RobertK

The difference with the motorsports ranch is they have people that actively advertise on here and refuse to get a vendor package, restaurants don't for the most part.

The few restaurants that have advertised have got points and told not to.

thats actually incorrect. motorsports ranch has never (at least from what i have seen) made a single post about their track and trying to get people to come out to it.


you are correct that a company that does drivers education days (apex driving academy) has regularly posted about days upcoming. i've asked about that before and you are correct that apex driving posts should be deleted per the vendor rules.

in this case (the evo maxx event), the motorsport ranch event was NOT associated with apex driving academy. if you are familiar with motorsports ranch you would know that it is a country club type event, where people can buy memberships. once they are a member, they can bring friends, and people are welcome to go to the track anytime for free. as a member you are allowed to bring people out on the track to ride along, and you are even allowed one "guest" who can drive on the track as well. in the case of the evo maxx event, several of the NTEC members are also members of motorsports ranch already, and VOLUNTEERED their guest passes to people interested in driving on motorsport ranch. i'm in agreement with mrMTB:

• An event is considered “For-Profit” if money is collected to attend or participate
• For-Profit events must be authorized by the EvolutionM advertising staff and may require a vendor package. Contact CharlesJ for approval.
• For-Profit events that will not require a vendor package include motorsports events and shows that specifically include Lancers. These events may not be used as a tool to promote any other non vendor business.
• Local and National meets, BBQs, etc must not reference any non vendor business.
• Dynos days, tuning days, and other paid service event require a vendor account
• Exceptions – Members may discuss any event as long as they are not promoting it on behalf of themselves or another party.

This came down from the EvoM Staff over a year ago, So if you have any questions on why some events are being deleted and some aren't, my

its not a for profit event as it is free to watch, free to ride along, and as a guest driver it was 20 dollars a session which is the session fee the member gets for the guest. is that considered for profit? i don't think so (its like saying you need to pay for your own gas if you want to go with us to the evo meet in XX parking lot). this event very clearly IMO falls under the "motorsports events and shows that specifically include lancers" because the members were only allowing people at the EVO maxx event who wanted to drive their EVOs on the track.

jts my $.02

[71pantera]

Just so everyone knows.

1. Apex Driving Academy did ask and was allowed to post here for some time.

2. When the rules changed. Robert informed me of them, was very nice about it, and put me in touch with the correct person to talk to.

3. Apex made the decsion to not become a vendor for many reasons.
We do not see the need to pay for national advertising. I asked to pay for regional advertising and that was not an option. We do not have enough EVO drivers to justify the cost of becoming a vendor.

4. We do not speak for MSR.

Right or wrong I would hate to have Robert K's responsibilities.

[Speedlimit]

Hey guys,

CharlesJ (he is the commercial guy) stated the following today in the moderator forum:

"Track day organizations may post up track days within the motor sports section or regional. This does not count if the track day is being held by a non track-day organization such as a non vendor shop that it doing it for promotion. Only track-day organizations with open track days. This includes DE's and time attacks. Not the case for schools that charge thousands. "

We are tyring to balance the needs of the community to discuss local events and the need to generate revenue to pay for the hardware and bandwidth necessary to support the site. This is the most difficult area for the moderator's to address. Because of the variations in relationships and people shilling for non-registered vendors, Evom has more grey areas than a black and white TV test pattern. The above policy can be changed if we find tracks or vendors taking advantage. And the moderator's have the discretion to rule on an individual basis.

We need your help (all members) to ensure that people advertising share the cost of running the site. The cost to advertise here is a bargain and we all have a vested interest in keeping the computers well oiled. Thanks.

Speedlimit...

[DEVO330]

Originally Posted by Speedlimit

Hey guys,

CharlesJ (he is the commercial guy) stated the following today in the moderator forum:

"Track day organizations may post up track days within the motor sports section or regional. This does not count if the track day is being held by a non track-day organization such as a non vendor shop that it doing it for promotion. Only track-day organizations with open track days. This includes DE's and time attacks. Not the case for schools that charge thousands. "

We are tyring to balance the needs of the community to discuss local events and the need to generate revenue to pay for the hardware and bandwidth necessary to support the site. This is the most difficult area for the moderator's to address. Because of the variations in relationships and people shilling for non-registered vendors, Evom has more grey areas than a black and white TV test pattern. The above policy can be changed if we find tracks or vendors taking advantage. And the moderator's have the discretion to rule on an individual basis.

We need your help (all members) to ensure that people advertising share the cost of running the site. The cost to advertise here is a bargain and we all have a vested interest in keeping the computers well oiled. Thanks.

Speedlimit...

So help me understand (not fully understanding the above)
As KevinD explained better than I, why can't I post an invitation (to the evo community as an evo owner) to join me at MSR,(they didn't even know I was coming) but re-imbursing me for the track time I'm required to pay?

As an EVO enthusiast/fanatic,
I literally chase down Evo owners on the hwy, only to assist countless owners in joining the community by registering them on EVOm.

With that in mind, it has been very frustrating to be shut down for genuinely trying to promote EVO meet-ups, cruises etc. thru EVOm.
None of them that I am aware of have been initiated by anyone for profit, except the three we have prompted to join, namely, Gotham, KevinD, and Don Herring Mitsu.

If I can't understand the grey areas, I get in trouble/frustrated/deleted and have no intentions of profiting anybody.
Threads have been deleted with no warnings, or PMs; when I have received PMs, there were many assumptions and way too much attitude.

A very bad taste in my mouth from a blue ribbon supporter....

[mrMTB]

Speedlimit-

I agree 100% with the fact that there is a need to ensure that commercial promotion on the site is limited where the vendor in question has not established a vendor relationship. I understand, perhaps better than most, the true cost of maintaining a presence of any sophistication on the Internet.

Taking the issue of whether including Motorsport Ranch in the thread should be considered shilling for a non-vendor out of the picture, the Evo Maxx thread was sponsored by two EvoM vendors, Don Herring and Gotham Racing. I think that the deletion of a thread with their sponsorship is not the kind of precedent we want to be establishing with our vendors- it would have been more appropriate to request a specific revision to bring the post within guidelines (especially given that we know there is a considerable gray area).

If I were Don (who gave away $450 in parts and service as well as purchasing lunch for the 40 or so persons in attendance and trophies) or Steve (who graciously donated his dyno, experience, and time), I'd be a bit hot under the collar to see that an event I hosted was deleted from the site. I would not want to see something like this potentially jeopardize the relationship EvoM has with its vendors.

Regards,
M