Heal toe shifting.....anyone do it?
Apr 22, 2006, 05:34 AM
#47
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Does anyone else have trouble getting their foot completely on the gas after they finish a toe-heel? I sometimes get caught, or end up still pressing the brakes a bit. 
Apr 22, 2006, 08:20 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by spdrcr456
i dont even use my heel i use the left front edge on brake and the right front edge on gas. i dont even lift my heel off the floorboard. mabee i just have big feet.
and then you quickly move your foot complete to the gas when going out of the turn? Or do you just push completely on the right side of your foot???
Apr 23, 2006, 01:42 AM
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Proper H&T helps u keep in control of the car when shaving off speed & down shifting. This is important when you're car is at it's limits on a track. It vital when the track is wet or dusty. what you are doing is avoiding the car from being unsettled when approaching a turn, and allows u to concentrate on another important aspect; maintaining you're racing line. A key word here is smooth.
One problem with H&T is u tend to ignore a more important aspect. Proper braking. Data loggers reveal that even accomplished professionals tend to change brake pressure when H&T. Many inthusiasts who H&T tend to extremely vary brake pressure making the car more unstable than a simple non-blip down-shift; This will result in inconsistencies & slower overall lap times. Your right foot's priority should always be mastering the brakes. H&T only after lots of practice and becomes second nature.
There are various ways to H&T. previous posts described them. My advice is to apply what makes you comfortable.
One problem with H&T is u tend to ignore a more important aspect. Proper braking. Data loggers reveal that even accomplished professionals tend to change brake pressure when H&T. Many inthusiasts who H&T tend to extremely vary brake pressure making the car more unstable than a simple non-blip down-shift; This will result in inconsistencies & slower overall lap times. Your right foot's priority should always be mastering the brakes. H&T only after lots of practice and becomes second nature.
There are various ways to H&T. previous posts described them. My advice is to apply what makes you comfortable.
Apr 23, 2006, 01:58 AM
#51
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Atleast once or twice a day, depend on the situation hahaha. I tried to do it before the corner say if I'm seeing a yellow light getting ready to switch to red I would go really fast on whatever gear I'm in then as I get close to the turn I down shift to the apropriat gear before I turn in and off I go exiting the corner with the sound of the turbo going woooshhiii as I let go of the gas pedel then clutch into a higher gear.
Tried telling my friends to do it, but they just give me the WTF look. Their way of driving is to brake and clutch in then shift to nuetral then wait. As soon as they ready to come out of a turn then they would put it in gear.
Heal and toe downshifting is nothing really amazing, anybody can do it. Just gotta understand why you wanna do it is the key. Good Luck!!
Tried telling my friends to do it, but they just give me the WTF look. Their way of driving is to brake and clutch in then shift to nuetral then wait. As soon as they ready to come out of a turn then they would put it in gear.
Heal and toe downshifting is nothing really amazing, anybody can do it. Just gotta understand why you wanna do it is the key. Good Luck!!
Last edited by evolucion; Apr 23, 2006 at 02:04 AM.
Apr 23, 2006, 02:16 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by racerjon1
Good reason to do it on the street= Its one of those racing techniques that you can practice on the street. (Along with looking ahead, and hand position)
Just start with finding where to put your foot for the brake and gas, and start giving the throttle blip, dont even have to put it in gear as you do it, you can add that later as you feel comfortable, or just stay on the clutch as you do it coming up to lights and get the timing down without the extra clutch use.
What it does for equipment is save the synchros and makes shifts smoother, and by keeping the revs up when you let out on the clutch it will keep the wheels from locking up from the shock of fast car/slow engine. (can cause a spin quick in rwd)
Jon K
www.seat-time.com
Just start with finding where to put your foot for the brake and gas, and start giving the throttle blip, dont even have to put it in gear as you do it, you can add that later as you feel comfortable, or just stay on the clutch as you do it coming up to lights and get the timing down without the extra clutch use.
What it does for equipment is save the synchros and makes shifts smoother, and by keeping the revs up when you let out on the clutch it will keep the wheels from locking up from the shock of fast car/slow engine. (can cause a spin quick in rwd)
Jon K
www.seat-time.com
+1 get some practice it will come to you soon enough! it makes driving more fun and is that much easier on parts! rev-match FTW!
Apr 23, 2006, 11:24 AM
#53
[QUOTE=Eggy]and then you quickly move your foot complete to the gas when going out of the turn? Or do you just push completely on the right side of your foot???[/QUOTE
yea i move my foot completely to the right coming out of the corner. i tried the heel thing and it was a pain in the ***, this seems easier for me and i have more consistent pressure on brake. i just push on brake with edge of foot and tilt to right to bump throttle up real quick.
yea i move my foot completely to the right coming out of the corner. i tried the heel thing and it was a pain in the ***, this seems easier for me and i have more consistent pressure on brake. i just push on brake with edge of foot and tilt to right to bump throttle up real quick.
Apr 24, 2006, 11:50 AM
#54
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HOW TO practice heel toe.
WARNING, always use caution when using these techinques, practice without other cars around and always drive within your limits.
1. learn to rev match
This if the first step to learning heeltoeing. The idea is that you want to be able to downshift without causing the car to jerk. Its easiest to practice this at less than highway speeds, move to highway speeds when you are comfortable, preferably with no or light traffic. Say you are comfortably crusing in 4th gear, downshift to 3rd!
clutch-in, apply dab of gas, shift, clutch-out
Don't bother with the brake at this point just concentrate on clutch and rev matching using the gas. You will know u got it right when u are you are able to make the downshift one smooth and quick proceedure. shoot for less than 1 sec from clutch in to clutch out, road racers will be able to do this in about .5 to .7 sec (depending on car) everytime all day long.
Debugging:
If after you let out the clutch your car
***seems to leap forward***
you are applying too much gas, less gas next time and/or let out the clutch later, and try shifting slower
***slows down ***
will feel like u applied the brake
you are applying too little gas, more gas and/or let out the clutch earlier, and try shifting quicker
2. learn to brake with only part of your foot on brake pedal
This is an intermediate step but still important. Practice putting part of your foot on the brake pedal and press down the brake, try this without the car running at first. Don't press the gas. learn where the gas pedal is in relation to your brake pedal, be able to feel the brake gas pedal when applying constant pressure to brakes. This is the best time to learn what part of the foot you can use to blip. Be it the side of your foot or your heel. I have found using the left side of your foot for the brake and the right side for the gas is the best and what most people use. The heel part of heeltoeing was because cars back in the day (and some now) have their gas spaced too far apart. Your evo and any proper sports car should have this right.
3. Putting it Together
Ok you know the basics, you can find the proper foot position from earlier in the thread now time to put it together. Its always a good idea to make a few dry runs before trying it with your clutch and transmission involved. Look straight ahead and aim to do this without loosing concentration on whatever is out the windshield.
REMEMBER: while applying constant brake, clutch-in, shift + blip, clutch out, smoothly off brake.
The above debugging rules about your car lerching forward or braking still apply. Remember to put constant pressure on the brake pedal throughout the braking, see step#2.
I instruct for NASA and I encourage folks to practice this before their first event. That said, always find a safe place to do this, you should be able to see where the off ramp leads to. highway off ramps are the best, preferably with no traffic. No need to drive at the limit to practice this. Cruising towards the offramp at highway speeds still demands heeltoeing to get into the right gear. The folks that claim this only applies to at the limit driving have not developed the fine modulation required for their brakes and rev matching. If you can do this consistently and comfortably at the offramp at non death defying speeds you are much better prepared for the track and street. The difference at the track is harder and longer braking.
Also remember that this kinda thing can take time, in fact I learn something new everytime I heel toe, on or off the track. Being able to do this confidantly and consistently is something that will take practice, don't let a mis shift discourage you.
WARNING, always use caution when using these techinques, practice without other cars around and always drive within your limits.
1. learn to rev match
This if the first step to learning heeltoeing. The idea is that you want to be able to downshift without causing the car to jerk. Its easiest to practice this at less than highway speeds, move to highway speeds when you are comfortable, preferably with no or light traffic. Say you are comfortably crusing in 4th gear, downshift to 3rd!
clutch-in, apply dab of gas, shift, clutch-out
Don't bother with the brake at this point just concentrate on clutch and rev matching using the gas. You will know u got it right when u are you are able to make the downshift one smooth and quick proceedure. shoot for less than 1 sec from clutch in to clutch out, road racers will be able to do this in about .5 to .7 sec (depending on car) everytime all day long.
Debugging:
If after you let out the clutch your car
***seems to leap forward***
you are applying too much gas, less gas next time and/or let out the clutch later, and try shifting slower
***slows down ***
will feel like u applied the brake
you are applying too little gas, more gas and/or let out the clutch earlier, and try shifting quicker
2. learn to brake with only part of your foot on brake pedal
This is an intermediate step but still important. Practice putting part of your foot on the brake pedal and press down the brake, try this without the car running at first. Don't press the gas. learn where the gas pedal is in relation to your brake pedal, be able to feel the brake gas pedal when applying constant pressure to brakes. This is the best time to learn what part of the foot you can use to blip. Be it the side of your foot or your heel. I have found using the left side of your foot for the brake and the right side for the gas is the best and what most people use. The heel part of heeltoeing was because cars back in the day (and some now) have their gas spaced too far apart. Your evo and any proper sports car should have this right.
3. Putting it Together
Ok you know the basics, you can find the proper foot position from earlier in the thread now time to put it together. Its always a good idea to make a few dry runs before trying it with your clutch and transmission involved. Look straight ahead and aim to do this without loosing concentration on whatever is out the windshield.
REMEMBER: while applying constant brake, clutch-in, shift + blip, clutch out, smoothly off brake.
The above debugging rules about your car lerching forward or braking still apply. Remember to put constant pressure on the brake pedal throughout the braking, see step#2.
I instruct for NASA and I encourage folks to practice this before their first event. That said, always find a safe place to do this, you should be able to see where the off ramp leads to. highway off ramps are the best, preferably with no traffic. No need to drive at the limit to practice this. Cruising towards the offramp at highway speeds still demands heeltoeing to get into the right gear. The folks that claim this only applies to at the limit driving have not developed the fine modulation required for their brakes and rev matching. If you can do this consistently and comfortably at the offramp at non death defying speeds you are much better prepared for the track and street. The difference at the track is harder and longer braking.
Also remember that this kinda thing can take time, in fact I learn something new everytime I heel toe, on or off the track. Being able to do this confidantly and consistently is something that will take practice, don't let a mis shift discourage you.
Last edited by heeltoer; Apr 25, 2006 at 12:27 PM.
Apr 25, 2006, 06:55 PM
#60
Originally Posted by evilferret
Anybody else has problem with apply the current pressure? I seem to be pushing the brakes too much while blipping.
Well thanks in advance.
Well thanks in advance.
try using mor of the edge of ur foot on the brake. and try not to move ur leg to blip the gas just tilt ur foot.. if u still hit brake too hard try lifting on brake as u blip just a little that might compinsate for the over braking.
move leg for brake tilt foot for gas.
