Super charger/ Turbo pics
Mar 16, 2005, 07:32 PM
#91
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Maye you could have some sort of DUAL intake manifold. The Short runners for the supercharge, and teh long runners for the turbo. Separated by a flapper door simlar to the 1G DSM intake manidolds. all Exhaust gas goes throught the turbo.
You know, VW has a new TT setup on their I4's. Its amazing really. They have a VERY tiny turbo that sits on the exhaust manifold. The manifold has a door that forces all teh gas throough teh 1st turbo and then goes into the 2nd. When spoolup is achieved the door opens and it all flows into the 2nd turbo except for the minimal amount to keep it at 6PSI. works REALLY well.... full spool by like 2000 RPMS and then a big turbo to flow the CFM's up top.
You know, VW has a new TT setup on their I4's. Its amazing really. They have a VERY tiny turbo that sits on the exhaust manifold. The manifold has a door that forces all teh gas throough teh 1st turbo and then goes into the 2nd. When spoolup is achieved the door opens and it all flows into the 2nd turbo except for the minimal amount to keep it at 6PSI. works REALLY well.... full spool by like 2000 RPMS and then a big turbo to flow the CFM's up top.
Mar 16, 2005, 07:54 PM
#93
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The OLD Style 1G DSM intake maniold has a dual runner design. SHort for low rpms and then clicks over to a longer runner for high rpm.
Vw is developing that TT setup I read in a C&D about 6 months ago.
SAAB has by FAR the kewlest Turbo setup as they made a motor with VARIABLE COMPRESSION RATIO!!! Anywhere from 13.0-1 down to 6.0-1. that is kewl, spool the turbo like a mad man and then drop the ratio as the boost spools up...
Vw is developing that TT setup I read in a C&D about 6 months ago.
SAAB has by FAR the kewlest Turbo setup as they made a motor with VARIABLE COMPRESSION RATIO!!! Anywhere from 13.0-1 down to 6.0-1. that is kewl, spool the turbo like a mad man and then drop the ratio as the boost spools up...
Mar 16, 2005, 09:13 PM
#95
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Guys, I dont think the guys "needs" help in figuring out how to do a twin charge system....it has been proven to work by several tuners, such as HKS.
The same issues they faced, is still true, cause the combustion engine is after all pretty much unchanged. They used turbo's already in the 1920's on airplanes, there isnt realy anything new about it.
T
The same issues they faced, is still true, cause the combustion engine is after all pretty much unchanged. They used turbo's already in the 1920's on airplanes, there isnt realy anything new about it.
T
Mar 16, 2005, 09:23 PM
#96
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where can I find some information about Saab's turbo setup that you are talking about? That seems interesting
Mar 17, 2005, 05:17 AM
#97
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^ I've met the SAAB Engineers that developed the variable comression ratio. Great in concept, but they've had a very difficult time finding any kind of reliability with it. I did speak with these guys 2 years ago, so maybe they've made some improvements.
Mar 17, 2005, 05:30 AM
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BMWs new 3.0ltr diesel uses sequential turbos like umiami80 described. and i have only heard good stuff about them. also vauxhalls (the UKs GM) new 2.0ltr diesel will use a similar thing. its a good idea, but has to be done right! be nice to see aftermarket on an evo though (hint, hint).
the SAAB variable compresion engine did look very good, but they had problems getting a good seal on the crank case. also you are still limited by the amount of power the engine can take. and i dont think it would be any more (if as much) as what a stock design could!
an alternative way around the problem of packaging is to mount the supercharger AFTER the turbo! now i have not seen this done, but have asked a few enginer and they recon it can be done (used in industry already to get very high presures). so the turbo pumps the air through an intyercooler and then straight into a supercharger (pref. a twin screw like a whipple and say 1.6 ltr per rev). after the SC you tehen run it through a second cooler (water to air) and then into the manifold.
this way you are always on boost, but also, any presure that is made by the turbo will be increaed by the SC(by a factor of the overdrive of the SC). so you could run 15psi from the turbo, and (spining the supercarger to give 2.0ltr per rev) the suoercharge would increase the presure to 2.0bar! this way you do away with the valve inbetween the turbo and SC.
what you guys think?????
thanks Chris.
the SAAB variable compresion engine did look very good, but they had problems getting a good seal on the crank case. also you are still limited by the amount of power the engine can take. and i dont think it would be any more (if as much) as what a stock design could!
an alternative way around the problem of packaging is to mount the supercharger AFTER the turbo! now i have not seen this done, but have asked a few enginer and they recon it can be done (used in industry already to get very high presures). so the turbo pumps the air through an intyercooler and then straight into a supercharger (pref. a twin screw like a whipple and say 1.6 ltr per rev). after the SC you tehen run it through a second cooler (water to air) and then into the manifold.
this way you are always on boost, but also, any presure that is made by the turbo will be increaed by the SC(by a factor of the overdrive of the SC). so you could run 15psi from the turbo, and (spining the supercarger to give 2.0ltr per rev) the suoercharge would increase the presure to 2.0bar! this way you do away with the valve inbetween the turbo and SC.
what you guys think?????
thanks Chris.
Mar 17, 2005, 05:50 AM
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Great in concept, but they've had a very difficult time finding any kind of reliability with it. I did speak with these guys 2 years ago, so maybe they've made some improvements.
The Problem is finding a head gasket that can streatch and compress, be flexible, all the while holding in compression.
Mar 17, 2005, 08:12 AM
#100
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Originally Posted by umiami80
The Problem is finding a head gasket that can streatch and compress, be flexible, all the while holding in compression.
In their design there is no head gasket, the cylinder walls are part of the head, they move up and down with the head as the head tilts, that changes the distance from the piston dome to the combustion chamber as the head tilts altering the compression ratio. The problem is that as the head tilts, so do the cylinder walls, so the centerline of the cylinders does not always intersect the ceterline of the crank. This increases cylinder wall side loading depending on the angle of the head, greatly increasing ring/wall wear.
- Steve
Mar 17, 2005, 08:25 AM
#101
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Actually, that's not the problem at all...
It was in the R&T article I read. It was also a different deign. It had a turbo instead of an electric supercharger. And instead of the head tilting, it simply raised straight up and down. The problem was described as Head Gasket reliability.
The one I posted above was the only one I could find. This one I know little about.
Mar 17, 2005, 11:10 AM
#103
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Originally Posted by umiami80
It was in the R&T article I read. It was also a different deign. It had a turbo instead of an electric supercharger. And instead of the head tilting, it simply raised straight up and down. The problem was described as Head Gasket reliability.
The one I posted above was the only one I could find. This one I know little about.
The one I posted above was the only one I could find. This one I know little about.
Anywho... yes this thread was hijacked... sign, stamp, and return to sender.
Mar 17, 2005, 11:52 AM
#104
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Originally Posted by umiami80
Twin charging allows you to run an insanely large turbo and have it spool while the SC spools instantly. What would be keel is if the SC could shut down once the other turbo spools, it'll gain ya about 15% in power as the parasitic loss is gone and that turbo looks plenty large enough to make the power you need. So set it to have the SC shut off at what, 4200RPM to spool that Mac Truck Turbo with the extra exhaust gas velocity of the Supercharger, then have a clutch like pulley system disengage the Supercharger and let the turbo do the work.
IMHO you would make more WHP if you disabled the Supercharger for the upper RPM’s.
IMHO you would make more WHP if you disabled the Supercharger for the upper RPM’s.
Mar 17, 2005, 11:53 AM
#105
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Originally Posted by smittyinva
Hmm... Looks like an Opcon Autorotor supercharger. Tell more, please.