BBYBruno

iTrader: (11)

High PSI quit being a dick!

High_PSI

iTrader: (50)

Not being a dick, simply making an observation. It may not be popular, but this is what one would expect on an open Forum where one is asking for information to be posted.

3240

"Admitted defeat." High PSI I really don't get your point. Please define defeat? AMS didn't want to work on the car because they didn't build it. Union 7 (Bert) wasn't comfortable tuning it beyond 700 HP because of lack of experience. The car made over 600 awhp and ran in the 10's consistently without problems. How is this defeat? Please define your definition of defeat as it's different than mine. I didn't set out to break any 1/4 mile records or dyno records (Would 800 HP and high 9's have cut it in your book or do I need to own it for a certain period of time?). I set out to build a high HP Evo that didn't suffer from severe turbo lag at altitude. Most important, I set out to build something entirely different. Mission accomplished.

If I had to do it again I'd go with twin turbos. Altitude is a huge problem when it comes to large turbos and low displacement engines. I'm scared now of new projects because I'd hate for someone that I respect (sarcasm) such as yourself to accuse me of "cutting and running." Before I start my next project I'll PM you for an acceptable time table, acceptable HP levels, and accpetable 1/4 mile times.

Let's start with the Cayenne:

In order to please you how long do I need to keep it before it's sold? How much power does it need to make? What times do I need to run? Please define success for me and help me avoid the stigma of "cutting and running." Your guidance is greatly appreciated especially when one considers all of your accomplishments. I'll put the Cayenne project on hold until I hear back from you. Thanks for your help.

3240

One more point I'd like to make:

You said it never ran properly. This isn't true as it ran great. We had issues when we tried pushing it passed 700 HP on the dyno. Otherwise the car ran awesome and was very reliable. Once the the car (any car) makes huge power maintanence becomes an issue. This was not a car that anyone could maintain and the guy who knew the car lived 2000 miles away. Do you see how this might present a challenge?

You also keep talking about the thousands that I spent and lost on this project. Do you really think losing thousands on highly modified cars or high dollar cars is unusual? If you do, I advise you to stick with what you know. This Evo didn't set any personnel records for me as far as losses go.

At the end of the day I enjoyed the project, had three levels of build on the same car, and did something that's never been tried before. I'm happy and that's really all that matters, right?

High_PSI

iTrader: (50)

It's ok sir, sometimes members just won't see eye to eye no matter what info is presented on either sides. Defeat? Certianly, you admitted on multiple occations that the car was simply too complicated to get it to work properly. That is pretty much it; 100% based on your posts. You are contradicting yourself all over the place and focusing on the fact that a SALE is considered failure. That may be the way you try to spin this, but one read from your recent posts dictates that you gave up and sold it being not happy with the results and the fact that it didn't work properly, all this you posted by the way, I am simply expressing my pity on the subject.

Without issues? Didn't you go through multiple engine rebuilds? Again your posts.


What do you mean cut it in my book? I don't have a book. All I remember is you decided to build a KILLER daily driver, not a track car, not a drag car, but have an Evo that could not only spool a huge turbo VERY fast but produce daily drive ability and to some extent a seamless street going translation. By you own admission you could not get this done and neither could AMS so you simply scrapped the whole project and started a new with a FAR more simple 2.1 and 42R. I also don't get that because you also stated that you saw no fun in that but did it anyway, getting a Turn Key Ride from AMS that is.

I'm sorry but you did "Cut and Run", I am also sorry but read your posts; the proof is there. As far as your other projects such as the Cayenne and the Merc, I think you have me confused with someone who actually cares. I promise in the future that if I DO CARE, I will ask, but no need to volunteer information I simply didn't care/ask for.

I did however care for this Evolution and it is a shame you could not get it to work properly as it was too complicated. I just wish that you stuck it out a lil more with all that cash into it. I also wish that New found low end torque would aid in track times which it did not. The IX having a fatter mid range finds better track and trap speeds and I was hoping the same from you when compared to similarly prepped Evo's. 129 is very good btw but we both know you wanted better. The car ran great, what, once, back in March? You also stated that you would go 45R this winter along with the SC'r Then you stated that you were going to give the Twin Charging a break and let AMS built you a 900WHP car, but you JUST posted that you wouldn't do that because you couldn't see the fun it. You also "called it quits" on the Twin Charge, idk what other proof I can exhibit. You also make it sound like the entire project ended is disappointment and now you try to state that it wasn't.

You are all over the place man, lots off people were waiting, and there was no payoff.


IDK man, I just call it like I see it....

3240

I'm going to make one last attempt to explain. Here it goes:

This was a killer car and it worked perfectly. It was extremely complex in that only one person understood the twin charger system. We only ran into problems (three blown engines) when we attempted to push the HP beyond the 700 barrier. These failures were not a result of the twin charger system and they would have occured even if we were just using a GT42r turbo. Bert did not have experience pushing HP to these higher limits and would have had problems whether he was using all turbo, nitrous, etc. After realizing his limitations we decided to send the car to AMS to replace the engine and finalize the tuning. They didn't want to touch it since they did not understand the design. At this point I thought about going the "standard" big turbo route but couldn't get excited about another me too Evo. After more than three years and dozens of 1/4 mile runs I decided to move on.

It's really simple. As a daily driver making 600awhp this thing was awesome, reliable, and conquered the turbo lag issue. We had tuning related problems (not realted to the twin charging system as it always worked) once we moved into the really big HP numbers. Blaming the engine failure on the twin charge system is like blaming the turbo when someone tunes a GT42r to 900 HP and experiences engine failure. Is the turbo to blame or is the tuning to blame? In my cast tuning to extreme HP levels was a problem and the knowledgeable tuners were hesitant to touch a car that they didn't design or understand.

If all I wanted was a 600 awhp car, this was it and it worked well (3,000 proven miles at this level without a single issue). After time, 600awhp wasn't enough and I bailed on the car before we could work out the tuning to move it beyond this level. If this is failure in your book then so be it. Arguing with someone who has no experience stepping outside of the box, like you, is a waste of time but I have a head cold and I'm stuck home today with little to do.

Also, you state that this ended is dissapointment. Yes, you're correct. I was dissapointed that we weren't able to max out the potential of this turbo (twin charge) system. However, dissapointment and failure are two very different things. You also said that you expected to see a difference in 1/4 mile times. Why? An Evo with all turbo is rev'd to the moon off of the line putting it into boost. I launched at about 4,000 rpms because my power band was different. What's the outcome between a 600 awhp Corvette and a 600 awhp EVO in the 1/4 mile? If they both hook up well, weight the same, and they both stay within their power bands the outcome should be similar.

High_PSI

iTrader: (50)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3240

I'm going to make one last attempt to explain. Here it goes:

This was a killer car and it worked perfectly. It was extremely complex in that only one person understood the twin charger system. We only ran into problems (three blown engines) when we attempted to push the HP beyond the 700 barrier. These failures were not a result of the twin charger system and they would have occured even if we were just using a GT42r turbo. Bert did not have experience pushing HP to these higher limits and would have had problems whether he was using all turbo, nitrous, etc. After realizing his limitations we decided to send the car to AMS to replace the engine and finalize the tuning. They didn't want to touch it since they did not understand the design. At this point I thought about going the "standard" big turbo route but couldn't get excited about another me too Evo. After more than three years and dozens of 1/4 mile runs I decided to move on.

It's really simple. As a daily driver making 600awhp this thing was awesome, reliable, and conquered the turbo lag issue. We had tuning related problems (not realted to the twin charging system as it always worked) once we moved into the really big HP numbers. Blaming the engine failure on the twin charge system is like blaming the turbo when someone tunes a GT42r to 900 HP and experiences engine failure. Is the turbo to blame or is the tuning to blame? In my cast tuning to extreme HP levels was a problem and the knowledgeable tuners were hesitant to touch a car that they didn't design or understand.

If all I wanted was a 600 awhp car, this was it and it worked well (3,000 proven miles at this level without a single issue). After time, 600awhp wasn't enough and I bailed on the car before we could work out the tuning to move it beyond this level. If this is failure in your book then so be it. Arguing with someone who has no experience stepping outside of the box, like you, is a waste of time but I have a head cold and I'm stuck home today with little to do.

Also, you state that this ended is dissapointment. Yes, you're correct. I was dissapointed that we weren't able to max out the potential of this turbo (twin charge) system. However, dissapointment and failure are two very different things. You also said that you expected to see a difference in 1/4 mile times. Why? An Evo with all turbo is rev'd to the moon off of the line putting it into boost. I launched at about 4,000 rpms because my power band was different. What's the outcome between a 600 awhp Corvette and a 600 awhp EVO in the 1/4 mile? If they both hook up well, weight the same, and they both stay within their power bands the outcome should be similar.

All right man, as long as you were happy. But you stated that car was too complicated and so did AMS because only one guy understood how the Twin charge worked right? Then why not have AMS build a Bottom end that could handle the power you were looking for (because we all know AMS can build a bottom end to handle that power) and then bring it back to Philly for a tune.

That's what you wanted right?

joeymia

iTrader: (6)

damn do you even read what he is typing? high psi give it up already

3240

I must not be making myself clear so I'll try again:

The car was complicated in that it was a one off design by an individual. This was not a "cookie cutter" build. The first engine that blew up was built in Colorado by the guys from Kleemann, the second and third engines were built by AMS to handle the power. The engine build was not the issue as AMS builds excellent engines and the Kleemann engine lasted a long time. The tuning in Philly was the issue. The tuning problem had nothing to do with the twin charge system. Union 7 just didn't have experience tuning a car for this much HP. It's the tuning that caused engine failure, not the twin charge system and not the AMS engine itself. AMS did not want to tune this car because of the money invested and liability. They were afraid, at this level, to mess with something that they didn't build. I can't say I blame them.

I could have waited another 4 months to have a new engine built and installed by AMS. Bert from Union 7 was willing to fly out to Chicago to work on tuning under the watchful eyes of AMS after everything was put together. However, at this point I lost interest in the Evo and wanted to move on. Some call this cut and run, some call this boredom and desire for a change.

However, it did work surprisingly well and could have been taken to the next level but I just wasn't interested. I still don't consider this to be a failure as it did everything that Bert told me it would do. I knew from day one that the easiest way to the 9's was a large turbo and nitrous but that wasn't my ultimate goal. If I was just interested in 1/4 mile times I wouldn't have started with an Evo.

High_PSI

iTrader: (50)

Lost interest, ok. Just spin it any way you want dude. It's really getting old. I read every thread on this page and you never got the desired results, changed the entire setup when it didn't worksold the car, and now regret it. I am just summing up your posts, and you cop and attitude.

3240

1. "Lost interest" - correct, I did.
2. "Getting old" - I didn't bring this thread back from the dead.
3. "Didn't get the desired results." - Correct, I was dissapointed that we never made more HP. However, I was pleased with the actual twin charger design.
4. "Changed the desired setup." - I did?
5. "Regret it." - No not really. But I do miss it.
6. "Cop and attitude." - You should try re-reading your original posts in this thread.

The car was cool and there are days when I wish I held on to it. But I didn't and life goes on. Who still says "dude" dude?

smp3000

iTrader: (13)

Man, not just extra money, but A LOT of it. I'd be interested in what you did for living?

High_PSI

iTrader: (50)

It certainly is a lot of cash. Good for him to have that kinda scratch.

Scottr126

iTrader: (62)

Hello everyone, I actually recently aquired the supercharger and side mounted turbo manifold from this build, if anyone would be interested in purchasing either please pm me with offers, I have the manifolds for the supercharger also.

Thanks

SCott

ae25

hi 3240
sorry for dragging this thread up...
ive just read thru the whole lot in the last couple of nights! wow! i'd like to congratulate you on such an awesome project. im sure most evo owners would be quite happy with 600+ hp and massive torque!

now that this is well and truly finished and you've moved on.. would there be any chance you'd spend the time to explain your 'simplistic' bypass valve for other enthusiastic twincharger builders? im researching before finally building my own engine.
so far the best solution i could think of was a diaphragm operated butterfly bypass running off pressure before the s/c (turbo into sc system). with adjustability via spring rate on the diaphragm from atmosperic into boost.

another highlight is see in your system is the water/air(?) cooler using aircon. quite an evolution in itself! from what you say this was very effective and im sure more people other than me would be interested in knowing more! especially in how it operated. im guessing it was using water as a medium to a heat exhanger with the aircon cooling it?
hope you don't mind revealing the secrets
thanks again for the detailing of your project!! simply awesome