HiVoltEVO8

iTrader: (4)

I have ordered an XEDE (hopefully will recieve it soon!) and I was wondering if anyone has or is utilizing the the high current output channel to control water or water/alky injection. The EXEDE seems like a great platform to use it. For example....you could use a multi-pole switch for changing maps and turning on the WI. This should allow you to run a more agressive map (such as 100 octane map on 93 octane). Switching maps back would turn off the injection and put you back to a regular 93 octane map. It seems it would be the best of both worlds and you would not have to purchase a tank of race gas.

Anybody have thoughts on this subject. A good DIY water injection system could be designed for less than $300 with the EXEDE controlling a high speed solenoid to modulate water/alky injection flow. $300 for 30+ horsepower sounds like a great idea to me

HiVoltEVO8

iTrader: (4)

bump

Erik@MIL.SPEC

iTrader: (94)

Or could shiv program an XEDE using the Works water injection system?

HiVoltEVO8

iTrader: (4)

Am I breaking new ground or is it just that nobody cares????

BTW, the works injection system is much like the 2d system from Aquamist. It allows adjustment of water to fuel ratio since it gets injector pulse width and allows 3D mapping. I was looking at a less expensive system, with the same features, using the Xede's capabilities.

HiVoltEVO8

iTrader: (4)

bumpity

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Hi guys,
It's realy easy to control water injection with the XEDE. Doing so will save you the $500 you would otherwise pay with a waterinjection controller. I can provide more info (overview, wiring, etc,.) on this subject when I get back from Colorado on Tuesday.

cheers,
shiv

HiVoltEVO8

iTrader: (4)

Shiv,

Thanks for replying. I will be looking forward to this information. It seems that nobody else has tried this and I am willing to be the first to implement this. I should be able to do mapping very similar to PWM for boost? correct? I still need to get my XEDE first. It was supposed to have shipped out Thursday of last week. I sent an E-mail to get tracking information and confirm shipment, but I have not heard from Brett yet. I ordered it with a stage 1 signature.

I hope everything went well in Colorado.


HiVoltEVO8

turboICE

I have used both the on/off trigger feature of XEDE as well as the mappable PWM feature with XEDE for water injection. Aquamist's fia2 works perfectly as a controller with the on/off feature and is ~$100 seperate from a system such as the 2d.

While the PWM driver works well its frequency is a bit high for most solnoids for map/meter control. At 2 pulses per crank revolution - once you are in the mid rpm range most injectors like Aquamist's HSV will be static - losing the ability to have progressive flow matched to engine load.

HTH

turboICE

I have a document on converting the existing on/off switch to a mappable pwm from chip torque I can send to you. PM me with your e-mail address and I will send it to you.

Unless you are using an ultra fast solenoid that can change open/closed states in less than 1ms though you may find that the pwm doesn't work well from around 4.5k rpm and up. The frequency is just too high for most injectors to handle.

WildRice

Shiv.... xede and aquamist sounds like a winning proposition. It seems as if a very aggressive ignition curve would be possible on 91 octane fuel as well as much leaner f/a ratios and perhaps even a couple of additional lb.s boost. What kind of HP would you estimate? The boys in SF seem reluctant to provide a dyno chart for their product do you have one from any of the cars you have done?

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

I've found WI, used alone, to be quite a remarkable power robber. Never seen one part result in such an across-the-board reduction in power. The only way to compensate for the addition of noncombustible water in the air/fuel charge is to take advantage of the in-cylinder temp reduction by running leaner fuel maps and more advance. Depending on the nozzle size, application, set-up, etc,. I've been able to run 3-6 additional degrees of advance and a/f ratios up to 2 full points leaner while still maintaining a good safety margin against detonation. In some apps, these fuel and spark timing tweaks will more than compensate for the power loss induced by the water and result in more power. In other cases, they will offset each other perfectly resulted in no discernible gain. The latter is what I've seen most with Subaru WRXs-- probably because they already run so much ignition advance under boost. The EVO, on the other hand, hardly runs any advance so the incremental bump in advance should have quite an affect. Until the water runs out and then, of course, boom Therein lies the beneifts of having two maps that you can switch between. I would be very hesitant to map an ECU to rely on water injection for safe performance. I hope to do some WI testing on the EVO sometime in Jan.

Just my 2C,
Shiv

mapmaker50

I've found FUEL DUMPING, used alone, to be quite a remarkable power robber. Always seen one part results in such an across-the-board reduction in power. The only way to compensate for the over-rich, sooty burn of the air/fuel mixture is to run leaner fuel maps and more advance, using water as an in-cylinder coolant. Depending on the nozzle size, application, set-up, etc, It is possible to run 3-6 additional degrees of advance and a/f ratios up to 2 full points leaner while still maintaining a good safety margin against detonation. In some apps, these fuel and spark timing tweaks will more than compensate for the power loss induced by the fuel-dumping and result in more power. In other cases, they will offset each other perfectly resulted in no discernible gain. Until recently I've seen some WRXs on the NASIOC board getting-some incredible results with water injection - probably because they run the proper air/fuel ratio, approaching 12.5:1. Also running much ignition advance under boost - No detonation - The EVO, on the other hand, hardly runs any advance so the incremental bump in advance should have quite an affect. Over-rich fuel mixture causes bore-wash as well as thinning of the oil, when the oil is too thin and then, of course, boom - bearing failure. Therein lies the benefits of having two maps that you can switch between. I would be very hesitant to map an ECU to rely on fuel dumping for safe performance.

Just my 2C,
MapMaker - I like to have a discussion with two view points ...

mapmaker50

I would like to add one more thing - it only needs one-sixth of water to replace fuel for the same cooling effect.

MapMaker

jfh

iTrader: (38)

Anyone who has ever driven a stock Evo over 5K RPMs , has felt the power robbing and seen the black sooty exhaust plume attributable to the ECM's EPA acceptable fuel dumping strategy. The only way to compensate for the over-rich, sooty burn of the air/fuel mixture is to run leaner fuel maps and as much advance as your octane will tollerate. Whether you are octane challenged or not, lowering combustion chamber temperatures will most certainly mitigate detonation problems encountered with aggressive timing and fuel management strategies.

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Too bad it's not combustible

shiv