shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

So we've been getting a lot of calls this past week from people who have been road tuned recently. Apparently, they don't feel that their cars are performing as they should. From what I've been told, their road tuning process took around 2 hours and involved a bunch of datalogging and additional in-car instrumentation. As well as a few highway on-ramps and a meeting in some parking lot.

So today, in came a beautiful grey EVO IX. Not only was it road tuned, it was also modded with parts recommended by the road tuner! These parts were recommended and professionally installed prior to the road tune. We won’t disclose the brand name of some of these parts. Instead, we'll just refer to them as "Brand X".

So here is what was on the car:

-Brand X downpipe (which was removed due to fitment issues and replaced by another aftermarket 3" dp)
-Brand X cat-back
-Brand X Upper IC pipe
-HKS intake
-Free flow cat
-Forge UNOS MBC
-Brand Y Ecutek based custom-tuned Reflash

The customer came in complaining of unsatisfactory power. He was also disappointed with all the noise (hissing/whooshing/wheezing) emanating from under the hood. His wife even commented that she thought something was wrong with the car

With the exception of the DP swap (both were 3" DPs), the car was EXACTLY as the tuner left it. Right down to the MBC setting. Dyno logs show peak boost of 21psi, tapering down to ~18psi by 7000rpm. AFR was rich in the midrange, becoming slightly leaner around 7000rpm. During the four baseline runs (with 1 min cool-down between pulls), power output ranged from 263-267whp. Torque ranged from 225-238lb-ft. Interestingly enough, these results were perfectly in-line with the dyno results measured a week or so ago at another shop (that uses an AWD Mustang Dyno). Right down to the shape of the power curve, dips and bumps in all!

Out with the new and in the old
So the next 2 hours were spent removing some unnecessary parts. First removed was the upper intercooler pipe with its integrated DSM blow off valve. Next removed was the HKS intake. Next, we removed the MBC (which, quite honestly, is a nicely built piece!) Next, we plumbed back in the factory boost hoses, airbox and intake hose. The airbox proved to be a bit difficult to install due to some interference issues with the aluminum batter mount. Then we installed the factory upper intercooler pipe and factory BOV. What we were left with was a nearly stock-looking engine bay. The only ill fitting aftermarket device that you could see under the hood was the batter miniaturization kit. To be fair, however, it does save weight of the heaviest corner of the car

Next, I completely erased the factory ECU and loaded up a very conservative base map. This map changes just about every performance-related parameter in the ECU (timing, fuel, MIVEC, compensations, open/closed loop switchovers, etc,.) This is the map I use when I first begin tuning a car from scratch as it has low boost and errs on the side of conservatism in just about every respect.

The result...

Brand Y Road Tune vs. Getting started Dyno Tune (WHP and BOOST)
Ok. Not bad for starters. Compared to the Brand Y Road Tune, the Getting-started Tune makes 6-12whp less power above 7000rpm. Everywhere else, however, it makes more power. A lot more power. We're talking 30-40whp more power. And with less boost above 4000rpm too.

And the tuning begins....
I spent the next hour tuning the car. More boost. Tweaked fuel tables. Massaged Timing tables. I made no changes to our custom MIVEC table. If it aint broke, why fix it?

The results were in line with the other EVO 9s we've tuned. Right around 285whp with similar amounts of torque. Another benchmark we use for a tuned EVO 9 (with exhaust) is for it to make 210whp (stock 05 EVO 8 power) at 4000rpm.. Which it did. Here are the results of 4 runs of the Brand Y tune vs. 4 runs of our Custom Dyno Tune:


Wheel HP
It is interesting to see that the spread/variance between the Brand Y runs are greater than they are in our custom dyno tune which is making, at times, 50 more WHP. Also nice to see that these gains were right in the midrange where they can be most useable.


Wheel Torque
A picture is worth a thousand words so I'll just shut up.


Air/Fuel Ratio
As it should, the custom dyno tune shows a sensible AFR curve, getting richer towards the higher RPM band. As it should to keep cylinder-temps in check. Absent is the strange 7000RPM enleanment that was evident with the Brand Y tune.


Boost Pressure
With in-cylinder temps and pressures under control, we could run a fair amount of boost on 91oct. 23peak, steady at 22 and tapering to 19 by redline. One of the nice things about the MIVEC equipped EVO 9 is the improved knock resistance afforded by its ability to put intake cam timing wherever it wants for maximum performance. Awesome car.

Although a $450 lighter in the pocket (from 1.5 hours of uninstalling and 1.5hour of dyno tuning) the customer left happy and satisfied with the results. Perhaps he can give his driving impression after he has some more time to test the car.

Deep Thoughts/Conclusions

-Sometimes aftermarket parts aren't worth the expense. Not only do they often fit poorly, rattle and make excessive noise, they are useless unless the system is tuned properly. And even then, don't expect to see as big of gains as vendors would claim based upon their in-house, poorly-controlled, hardly-subjective dyno testing methods.

-Road tuning, while useful in the hands of someone who knows what he/she is doing, often leaves a lot to be desired. We have seen this time and time again. Getting road tuned is very much like opening up an unlabeled paper bag that some prankster left on your doorstep. It could be filled with crap or gold. Who knows? But tell me which is more likely? Especially when there is no way to quantifiable test things (like horspower?), in a stable and controlled environment, before the process is considered complete.

-A quiet, smooth-running fast car is a whole lot more enjoyable to drive than a slow, hissy and lumpy running car. And no amount of internet marketing ploys, spreading of bad info, disingenuous partnerships, and big talk is going to change that.

-Measure twice. Cut Once.

Flame Suite On...

-shiv

Evo_Jay

iTrader: (17)

Good Job, Shiv.

taenaive

iTrader: (20)

I think that brand Y doesn't know how to tune 91 gas. there were numerous complain about that.

I like the bit loud hissing car. Driving the fast quiet car was little dangerous. people has to know you are going fast. If you are quiet, they don't pay attention and they don't realize how fast your car is accelerating and they will come out in front of you. Think about if you have a quiet motorcylcle, you will not survive long.

Although, having quiet car is very stealthy and Cops won't bother you or treat you like criminal.

feldguy

iTrader: (4)

That was a very informative post, Shiv. Well spoken, well stated and free of bashing.

There is a certain point where functionality of the stock items become fitment problems (like a 4" inlet on a GT35) OR you require upgrades. For stock turboed cars, I can see where you are coming from 1000%. I just think that as you go along, even though you may not see immediate goals, upgrading parts when the opportunity presents, as in adding a larger intercooler because of a group buy, or buying a BOV for a good price. Neither will do much for a stock turboed car, but if your end result is much greater power, wouldnt it be in your best interests to look ahead? Like injectors....people always say buy this and buy that. Honestly, if you plan on making 500whp one day, but are only shooting for 340 today, why not just buy the 1000cc injectors now and save buying stuff twice?


Im nor argueing, Shiv, please dont think I have any intent like that. Im just saying, forethought with some of these parts is the idea. At least thats what Ive concluded myself. How wrong can I be?


One way or another, great post. Keep it up!

voidhawk

iTrader: (20)

I went through quite a bit of cash to learn this the hard way. Even when people who bought the part tell you "it rocks!" consider that most (not all) will be reluctant to admit they went down a dead-end and their shiny new part turned out to be a step back instead of an improvement.

The Evo is a very good car, and even with a very high quality after-market part, you really have to think about your approach before you mod, or it may not get you the result you are hoping for - especially since not every Evo owner has the same opinion on what is an improvement as the person(s) who desigend the part in question.

Disclaimer: I own neither vishnu nor dynoflash parts/services, nor am I saying anything about either specific vendor, just making a general statement.

EvoTio

iTrader: (10)

Oh boy, the road tune. When I was road tuned by a previous vender, I was left with a poorly running car on 91 octane. Quarter mile times fell off about 3/10ths and almost 3 MPH slower. Shiv spent almost 45 minutes troubleshooting on a Dyno Day last year and ending up loading up one of his flashes to get my Evo back to square 1. Unfortunately, I had to fix the other guys problem on Shiv's time when he could have been spending that time tuning my car. Anyway, my car is running great and I'm glad to hear that your IX is running great also.

statix

iTrader: (5)

My Question is, obviously your dyno tune made more HP but does it run better?
Let me throw in my .02.
I was once tuned by road tuner X and the car ran great but later I was talked into trying a dyno tune flash/piggyback from tuner Y. The car made very good power on the dyno, unfortunatly after driving around town for a few days I was starting to realize how poor the car was running after the dyno tune(backfiring, stalling, roughness in power), so I sold the piggyback from tuner Y and got another road tune from X and all was good again.
My personal opinion is how can a dyno translate to the street, hills, load etc.
I have also been tuned by other tuners on the dyno and honestly theres always something .
My intentions here are not to flame whatsoeve, I just wanted to give my thoughts on this.

taenaive

iTrader: (20)

I think you have to do both!

jbfoco

iTrader: (13)

Great gains

Great post

Thanks shiv

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

The main issue with the car as I see it was that it must have developed a BOOST LEAK after it was tuned as on the pre tuning data log is shows the boost falling to 16.5 psi

On a car with stage II and no boost leaks and a FORGE MBC with no boost leaks the car would have held 19 - 19.5 psi at red line as it seems to have done after changing all the parts and re-arranging the boost control set up

To me its fairly idiotic to compare a car falling to 16 psi to one which is holding proper boost

More boost = more power

Its also regratable to see Mr. Shiv bashing the quality and fitament of Buschur parts which I personally find to be some of the best parts out there

It is most regretable that rather than fixing the boost leak on this customer's car that Shiv chose to sell him a bunch of unneeded parts and go through this big some and dance

Remeber folk - BOOST = POWER

My tune on low boost vs. MORE BOOST = more power



Again - the BR stage II kit is a wonderful set up and its regretable that evidently a hose coupler may have loosened up or some other boost leak which lowered the boost about 3 psi from how it was tuned

I feel sorry for the customer who could have been set back with just a boost leak test but sadly it seems tuners would rather atatck other tuners and play games than really fix a problem

I have seen hundreds and hundreds of BR Stage kits out there and they continue to be some of the finest produced and best working parts in the business.

The fact that Shiv could speak of the BR products in such a manner about these fine parts shows how irrational he really is.

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

So we've been getting a lot of calls this past week from people who have been road tuned recently. Apparently, they don't feel that their cars are performing as they should. From what I've been told, their road tuning process took around 2 hours and involved a bunch of datalogging and additional in-car instrumentation. As well as a few highway on-ramps and a meeting in some parking lot.

So today, in came a beautiful grey EVO IX. Not only was it road tuned, it was also modded with parts recommended by the road tuner! These parts were recommended and professionally installed prior to the road tune. We won’t disclose the brand name of some of these parts. Instead, we'll just refer to them as "Brand X".

So here is what was on the car:

-Brand X downpipe (which was removed due to fitment issues and replaced by another aftermarket 3" dp)
-Brand X cat-back
-Brand X Upper IC pipe
-HKS intake
-Free flow cat
-Forge UNOS MBC
-Brand Y Ecutek based custom-tuned Reflash

The customer came in complaining of unsatisfactory power. He was also disappointed with all the noise (hissing/whooshing/wheezing) emanating from under the hood. His wife even commented that she thought something was wrong with the car

With the exception of the DP swap (both were 3" DPs), the car was EXACTLY as the tuner left it. Right down to the MBC setting. Dyno logs show peak boost of 21psi, tapering down to ~18psi by 7000rpm. AFR was rich in the midrange, becoming slightly leaner around 7000rpm. During the four baseline runs (with 1 min cool-down between pulls), power output ranged from 263-267whp. Torque ranged from 225-238lb-ft. Interestingly enough, these results were perfectly in-line with the dyno results measured a week or so ago at another shop (that uses an AWD Mustang Dyno). Right down to the shape of the power curve, dips and bumps in all!

Out with the new and in the old
So the next 2 hours were spent removing some unnecessary parts. First removed was the upper intercooler pipe with its integrated DSM blow off valve. Next removed was the HKS intake. Next, we removed the MBC (which, quite honestly, is a nicely built piece!) Next, we plumbed back in the factory boost hoses, airbox and intake hose. The airbox proved to be a bit difficult to install due to some interference issues with the aluminum batter mount. Then we installed the factory upper intercooler pipe and factory BOV. What we were left with was a nearly stock-looking engine bay. The only ill fitting aftermarket device that you could see under the hood was the batter miniaturization kit. To be fair, however, it does save weight of the heaviest corner of the car

Next, I completed erased the factory ECU and loaded up a very conservative base map. This map changes just about every performance-related parameter in the ECU (timing, fuel, MIVEC, compensations, open/closed loop switchovers, etc,.) This is the map I use when I first begin tuning a car from scratch as it has low boost and errs on the side of conservatism in just about every respect.

The result...

Brand Y Road Tune vs. Getting started Dyno Tune (WHP and BOOST)
Ok. Not bad for starters. Compared to the Brand Y Road Tune, the Getting-started Tune makes 6-12whp less power above 7000rpm. Everywhere else, however, it makes more power. A lot more power. We're talking 30-40whp more power. And with less boost above 4000rpm too.

And the tuning begins....
I spent the next hour tuning the car. More boost. Tweaked fuel tables. Massaged Timing tables. I made no changes to our custom MIVEC table. If it aint broke, why fix it?

The results were in line with the other EVO 9s we've tuned. Right around 285whp with similar amounts of torque. Another benchmark we use for a tuned EVO 9 (with exhaust) is for it to make 210whp (stock 05 EVO 8 power) at 4000rpm.. Which it did. Here are the results of 4 runs of the Brand Y tune vs. 4 runs of our Custom Dyno Tune:


Wheel HP
It is interesting to see that the spread/variance between the Brand Y runs are greater than they are in our custom dyno tune which is making, at times, 50 more WHP. Also nice to see that these gains were right in the midrange where they can be most useable.


Wheel Torque
A picture is worth a thousand words so I'll just shut up.


Air/Fuel Ratio
As it should, the custom dyno tune shows a sensible AFR curve, getting richer towards the higher RPM band. As it should to keep cylinder-temps in check. Absent is the strange 7000RPM enleanment that was evident with the Brand Y tune.


Boost Pressure
With in-cylinder temps and pressures under control, we could run a fair amount of boost on 91oct. 23peak, steady at 22 and tapering to 19 by redline. One of the nice things about the MIVEC equipped EVO 9 is the improved knock resistance afforded by its ability to put intake cam timing wherever it wants for maximum performance. Awesome car.

Although a $450 lighter in the pocket (from 1.5 hours of uninstalling and 1.5hour of dyno tuning) the customer left happy and satisfied with the results. Perhaps he can give his driving impression after he has some more time to test the car.

Deep Thoughts/Conclusions

-Sometimes aftermarket parts aren't worth the expense. Not only do they often fit poorly, rattle and make excessive noise, they are useless unless the system is tuned properly. And even then, don't expect to see as big of gains as vendors would claim based upon their in-house, poorly-controlled, hardly-subjective dyno testing methods.

-Road tuning, while useful in the hands of someone who knows what he/she is doing, often leaves a lot to be desired. We have seen this time and time again. Getting road tuned is very much like opening up an unlabeled paper bag that some prankster left on your doorstep. It could be filled with crap or gold. Who knows? But tell me which is more likely? Especially when there is no way to quantifiable test things (like horspower?), in a stable and controlled environment, before the process is considered complete.

-A quiet, smooth-running fast car is a whole lot more enjoyable to drive than a slow, hissy and lumpy running car. And no amount of internet marketing ploys and big talk is going to change that.

-Measure twice. Cut Once.

Flame Suite On...

-shiv


The original post can be found here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...61#post2688361

gonzo

iTrader: (4)

And there off.......

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

There were no boost leaks Al. All the couplers there tight and snug. Also Al, this isn't the first road tune of yours we've fixed. It's just the first one I decided to post up. I got more coming later this week!

-shiv

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

Shiv - no way That the boost drops to 17 with a Forge Unos MBC with a Evo IX unless there is some sort of boost leak

To your credit you were honest enough to show the boost charts

However - IMHO its fairly idiotic to run a car with 3 -4 psi less boost and say one tune is better than the other

Almost all your gains in power came from increased boost levels

As I said pitty a boost leak test with pressure was not done and the car dynoed holding 19 psi of boost as it was when I tuned it

I will post the data logs later when I have more time showing how well the boost was holding and how hard the car was pulling

very pathetic and unbelievable to see this diatribe of idiocy posted by a guy like youself - but it is amusing.

JTB

iTrader: (23)

Is it possible that the power differences we are seeing are due to different strategies on tuning the MIVEC?

EVOONYOASS

iTrader: (2)

Ah yes, the song and dance "my tune is better than your tune". Oh joy!

...and the drama begins once again.


Why don't we end this BS drama "I can tune better than you" by having all the top tuners willing to participate in the country TUNE THE SAME CAR. Is this what it has come too?


Nascar teams have engine build offs, why can't we have tune offs? I'm calling the Speed Channel first thing in the morning to set this up.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

Sure, if you ignore the major boost differences. 3psi=30whp, 4psi=40whp. Pretty basic. At the same boost level, though, Shiv may have had some improvements that would show a difference in tuning strategy, but we don't have an apples to apples comparison.

The good thing is that this customer ended up with what looks like a haulin' *** IX with no issues.

The bad thing is the alluding to Buschur's staged parts as not being useful or good mods when there are countless cars out there with these mods who post great dyno numbers as well as great numbers at the track. I personally don't care for intakes, but the intake in question here is not a Buschur product anyway.

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

Hard to reach any conclusions about MIVEC tuning unless the boost was identical

BTW - the car was tuned originally with ecutek

I will post the data logs tomorrow which show the car holding the same boost level as shiv's tune after I tuned it and it was obviously makinga lot more power

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

bingo!!

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Al.. Give it a rest. Right after you tuned the car, the customer himself said that he wasn't happy with it. You remember what your response was, right???

-shiv

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

Statix (Gabe),
Please, correct me if I'm wrong. But your drivability issues could have been easily addressed had you ever given Vishnu the opportunity. You told me that your main concern was that your car with the BR500 was stall prone with the Xede. I'm assuming that is the drivability issue you are referring to. Tons of us run turbo upgrades with the Xede without stalling issues. Above, Shiv is referring to a reflash, not his Xede piggyback.

However, correct me if I am wrong (seriously), but your car ran a 12.0 at 118mph with the Xede and made nearly 400whp on Shiv's dyno with that really bad BR500 that has long been discontinued. Your car never ran that fast with Al's reflash. I know, because I followed your progress like a hawk as IE Evo and I saw you as a friendly competitor.

I'm kinda surprised to see you in this thread. In fact, your loyalty to Al and DB honestly confounds me. I know for a fact theadditional following things about your car:

1. You had Buschur Racing's full stage 4 with a custom race fuel tune by Al and did a best of 12.6 at 109mph at California Speedway while IE Evo and I were both running consistent 12.3 at 112 with our completely stock looking Vishnu 1+s. Next you went big, getting Buschur's brand new BR500.

2. After getting rid of your unresponsive BR500, you opted for the BR440. Unfortunately, it came up a little short on power (375whp on a race gas tune on a dynojet). You explained that it could have been due to the BR cast exhaust manifold coming loose again. You (and several others on this forum) said that the bolts repeatedly worked themselves out and the turbo would come loose.

3. Next, you went back to a stock turbo and bought one of the ill fated Buschur/Dynoflash SMC alky kits with the bad circuit boards. It malfunctioned and it blew up your motor. David Buschur acknowleged that SMC screwed up and you said he helped you by selling you one of his stroker motors at a discount. However, Al just recently bashed you and blamed you for blowing up your motor.

4. Now, according to you, that Stroker motor, done by Buschur, uses a quart of oil at almost every other tank of gas.

But, you get on this thread about reflashes and go negative on Shiv?

Gabe, I like you and have always enjoyed your company but I just don't get how you can stay loyal after so many bad experiences.

BBYBruno

iTrader: (11)

Wow. Thats horrible.

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

See the first graph Al. And tell me if the gains are still caused by more boost And please stop making excuses until you completely absorb the entire post, graphs and all.

It's also "fairly idiotic" to claim that the 55-60lb-ft of torque difference between the two tunes at 4400rpm is caused the one extra psi more boost my custom tune runs. Must be my "moon dyno", right?

shiv

DrEvo

iTrader: (10)

No......!!! This is terrible!!! I thought DB built Sheps engine? Hmmm.... There has to be more to this story...

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

Shiv - its fairly idiotic to remain an idiot

Maybe your brain washed followers will grasp the comparision between 17 psi and 21 psi of boost in the heart of the power band - however more open minded readers will surely realize that 3 - 3.5 psi of extra boost will in most cases = more power ion fact significantly more power

BTW - here is the data log of how the car was tuned when I tuned it

The boost was hiting 20.5 psi and tapering to just under 19 psi

As shown the a/f is a razor smooth 10.89 across the board and the G force shows the car pulling smoothly and rather smartly.

When I drove the car it was without a doubt the fastest Evo I have driven on stock cams with 91 octane.

I am 100% sure a boost leak developed after I tuned the car

The customer was very displeased with the sound of the BOV as heard through the Buschur intake and commented that he did not like the sound - but ANY open air intake will allow the owner to hear that same sound when you release the gas and the air is heard venting back into the intake

I have seen a handful of customers who were disatified with that sound but time and time again it has been shown that the removal of the stock air box yields additional power

I think you will have a hard time convincing the members here that Buschur Racing staged kits need to be "removed" to resore the car to normal operation

I have found many happy Buschur customers


All i wall add is that the results at the race tracks across the USA by dozens of Buschur Customers vs. Vishnu customers prove that your products are slow in comparision and make little power for a lot of money

I am sure that many users will agree that compared to your overpriced goods the Buschur Products offer huge bang for the buck and high quality

I will leave it to Mr. Buschur personally to respond further to your very unprofessional and moronic attacks upon his fine products and excelent reputation

Here is the data log showing that wehen the car was in my hands it was holding excelent boost

I have to teach you how to diagnose and correct boost leaks when I am back out your way

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

Apperently the attchmernt function is not working at this time I will try again later

GTREVO

What about cars that are tuned using a Dynojet vs a Dyno Dynamics dyno? I have always been accustomed to using a DD dyno back when my cars were in Australia. Most of the available dynos here are all dynojets. I feel a significant difference in tune and performance of the car tuned on a dynojet and on a DD dyno. Perhaps you can quantify the differences and why in effect a car will run so different at the track after the tune??

statix

iTrader: (5)

What up Smog: I looks as though I have a lot of explaining to do.
#1 I did not post here to flame anyone nor support either, just stating the facts.
Stalling of my car was the main concern but not the only one.
Taking the car back to Shiv is a 12 hr round trip drive.
There is no longer any loyalty to Al or DB again my car did run best(maybe not the fastest) with Al flash, just because I may or may not like the guy anymore mean that Im going to go around and spread lies.
As far as times go, You and I both know for what ever reasons I was having cronic 3rd to 4th gear grinds, which hindered me extremely.
My very last run with my new ACT clutch yielded my a 1.7 60ft on a slip, which if my motor didnt nuke it would have been a good run, not the mention the guy I was racing was the guy from vegas that beat you that same night, which I was killing by about 3-4 cars before you know...
For the BR 440, I could only run 24 psi with a major boost leak, If I could have I would have run 28-30 without any leaks, but we know how that goes.
For awhile my stroker motor was using a lot of oil, maybe everything needed time to seat for my oil consumption is near stock at this time.
Wow, so go back to my post and realize that I was not bashing anyone, only stating the facts, it is the truth weather I like Al, Shiv or DB.
Me and Al have had are words and I no longer do busines with him.
So, back to my main point, My road tunes ALWAYS come out better than any of my dyno tunes( and I have had several).
So when's the 91 pisstane shootout, I think it time for some more good ol competition Peace....
BTW: its almost scary how of my cars past you know, I think you remember more than me, it may not all be accurate by close enough...

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Please do.

statix

iTrader: (5)

He's doing real good, is MR is pretty hooked up, maybe someday we'll make it to the strip for some fun.....

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Just don't get it locked, okay?

IE Evo

I agree that parts like upgraded IC,intake, MBC etc is not needed and is an added cost when u go the BR route. I do agree that Shiv's exhaust is a lil pricy but it is a beautiful piece. On the West Coast,back in the day, me and Smoggy held our own against the Br stage 4s and our total costs were a lil less.

IE Evo

Let me and Smoggy know when u go. I would like to see u guys run.

IE Evo

I won't. I had a couple Diatribes ready to post but my Wireless acted up and I am not in the mood to repost it.

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

What this chart shows is a nearly ideal 91 octane tune.

What I must add - whichI lacked the time to elaberate earlier due to time contsraints as I was still dynoing a Evo IX before at 2:00 a.m. and the dyno shop was growing a bit mad with me posting at the evo m at that hour - anyway this particular car which I will always remember vividly as the first BR Stage II on a Evo IX was probably the WORST WRENCHED EVO I have ever seen

When i met the customer I needed to REINSTALL his FORGE MBC as it was backwards - (hoses reversed) and the stiff spring was also MIS-INSTALLED an cocked so I had to go to the home depot and buy an allen wrench to take it apart

The whole install was buchered and the lowest quality install I have seen

I could esily belive that one of the upper fmic couplings could have worked its way loose of some other vacume line may have been missing a zip tie

The main thurst is that in normal operation when the engine is rocking back and forth and going over bumps BOOST LEAKS can and will develop.

When you see the boost falling to 16.5 psi in a 3rd gear pull and you have Stage II and a Forge MBC and Forge BOV you know there is without a doubt a boost leak or turbo problem - otherwsie the boost would not fall so far

Back to the chart shown - the a/f curve was almost 100% staight - a real smooth tune. The G force shows a smooth even pull all the way through and a very significant acceleration on that car.

I rememeber that car like yesterday - it was a real great riding car and a blast to drive. I thought it was VERY fast for 91 octane and the G force meter shows it pulling hard

MOST IMPORTANTLY - the boost is HOLDING and only droping 1.5 psi through the entire pull in 3rd gear to 7500 rpms

Obviously something happend after the tune was completed to result in a larger boost taper - obviously a BOOST LEAK

As I have said above - too bad that the original shop that did the install and or shiv did not or did not want to go through a diagnostic procedure to find out WHY the boost was falling so low.

It also amazes me that Shiv would be so misguided and confused to post this retarded comparision comapring the car at two totally different boost levels and claming that his tuning is so great.

fromWRXtoEVO

iTrader: (18)

Vishnu,


I must agree with some of the stuff that you said, by the way, good write up. You are correct, there are some mods out there that are not performance wise, but others definately are.

I am surprised that you guys made more power by removing a renoum brand like the HKS filter or a UICP with a 1 gen BOV, these BOV when crushed properly they can help significantly on holding boost, I personally have one installed.

Honestly I think the problem here is the tunning and the tuner, a good tuner should make your car fast. Per instance when I had my car tuned on the road my car felt fast, then we put the car on the dyno and re checked and there was virtually almost no changes that had to be made to the car.

By the way, I read an article from you guys almost 3 years ago in which you tested a Evo8 baseline with 91OCT then with 93OCT and made 8 more WHP with the 93 OCT gas bone stock.

How is the baseline power of a 03-04 vs the 05 Evo vs the 06 Evo 9? Do you guys have a reference?

Last but not least, I have always been impressed with your products and your performance, you laid the smack down very well with the 800HP TT Venom Viper and Lingenfelter Vette at the Supershooout.. Way to go!!

Carlos

Vishnu_Evo8

iTrader: (6)

Bfk Fer Lyfe

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Ahem.. Al? Where do you log boost from?

shiv

Vishnu_Evo8

iTrader: (6)

03-04 makes 205-210, 05s make 215-220, 06s make 235 ish.

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

The short story is that the car developed a bost leak after it was tuned and the initial data logs show the boost falling down at least 3 psi in the upper ends of the power banc down to 16 psi

The car needed to have aits boost leak fixed - not re-arange the car

Here is the data log from when I tuned the car - showing the boost was holding rock stead - a very high quality 91 octane tune