03/04 Cobra vs. 07 GT500, is the GT500 rally that much better?

3000ways · Jun 20, 2005, 09:26 AM

03/04 SVT Mustang Cobra vs. 07 Shelby GT500. The reason for this thread, is to point out that not every one is so sold on this car being that great. Even in the mustang camp, a lot of Cobra owners have their reservations on just how quick this car will be. The main culprit, is the 3800Lbs+ weight. Yes this car will be very fast, but just how fast is yet to be determined, many Cobra owners believe this car (GT500) will only be a couple of tenths quicker than the previous Cobra, what are your thoughts? As far as handling, should be one of the best for a Mustang, still do not be fooled by numbers, this car's weight is certainly a problem. It is no where near an EVO in that department, turning 3800Lbs is no easy task, I speak from experience (I owned a 3700Lbs VR4). High skidpad numbers, have more to do with those huge ass grippy tires.

mike69 · Jun 20, 2005, 09:59 AM

I wish they didn't make it that heavy. I think the fact that it has more potential than the previous Cobra will offset the weight.

**WestSideBilly** · Jun 22, 2005, 09:15 AM

If it's a couple tenths quicker than the Cobra, that's good enough for me. I personally don't like the exterior styling and interior of the Cobra (or regular Mustangs) but like those on the GT500 (and new Mustangs). If you want 450+ HP and light weight, you're going to have to go to the Chevy dealer and fork over $75k. For $40k it's going to be tough to beat.

**WestSideBilly** · Jun 22, 2005, 09:17 AM

Also, the motor is a pulley away from being the same as the Ford GT - so 550-600 HP should be a very cheap upgrade path.

wiretap · Jun 22, 2005, 09:18 AM

If they made it weigh less and have handling like a MR2 or evo.. it would be worth buying.

Jasil · Jun 22, 2005, 05:41 PM

What's up 3000? You probably don't want my input here, but here it goes. Some concerns are the weight, which some think was inflated in the recent magazine articles. The I beam rods that are rated for 600hp instead of the h beams in tehe 03/04's which are rated for 750hp. Guesstimates are traps in the 114-118mph range stock it should be a easy to get 125mph traps out of it with bolt ons.

The benefits are brakes...huge 14.1'' Brembo's, live axles, and stiffer chassis. My wife love's them, but mark up might be a pain.

It all depends on your goals, but cars are surely getting faster.

astrocreep96 · Jun 22, 2005, 05:56 PM

When I first heard the GT500 was coming out, I was really excited about it (I even created a thread about how great I thought it would be).

However, there are some things I am beginning to not like about it.

The engine is great (obviously), but the weight of the car is a serious issue. The displacement of the engine is a bonus, but I wonder if pushing around 3800lbs. is going to offset the extra cubes. With the live rear axle, it is still going to be a beast on the track, but I would prefer it have the 5.4 liter in a 3500lb. package.

Also, initially the GT500 was supposed to come with a twin-screw supercharger (a Whipple), putting it more-or-less on par with the Ford GT 5.4 liter engine straight from the factory (or close, at least). Now I hear that the GT500 will in fact have something like an M112 Eaton from the factory, meaning 600rwhp will likely still require a twin-screw upgrade anyway. But you can already make 600rwhp on an '03/'04 Cobra.

In the end, I think I'd buy one if I had the cash, but it is no longer my first choice. In fact, it makes the '03/'04 Cobra seem that much more appealing to me.

Jasil · Jun 22, 2005, 06:59 PM

The magazine issue say a M122 blower which you cannot find on the Eaton website anywhere, but I still think 550-575rwhp will be the norm for pulley, cai, and exhaust, Sct tune cars.

You get .8 liter more displacement and better flowing heads. Current cobra's can hit 500rwhp with some consistancy now...with more aggressive tunes in the 525-540rwhp range.

It should be interesting. I'm more concerened about the real strength of the I beam rods. It would suck to have a cai,pulley,exhuast, and tune and then find out you have more power than you rods can handle.

We'll see the 40K price is smokin....I'll take mine in Black with gray stripes please.

astrocreep96 · Jun 22, 2005, 07:17 PM

The 03/04 Cobra used an M112 Eaton, didn't it? From what I've seen, its limited to ~700cfm, or about 560 crank hp (with a LOT of heat coming out). Most guys on svtp are getting around 500rwhp with a port.

That kind of makes me wonder why Ford would even use a bigger engine when the factory supercharger is still limited to the same output. Possibly for the consumer so they have more potential? But then that doesn't explain the weaker con-rods.

I'm beginning to wonder if Ford is simply doing it to follow in the footsteps of Chevy (yeah, I know, Ford guys will love this), i.e. Chevy increased the displacement of the LS1 to 6.0 liters and called it the LS2. Now Ford is increasing displacement from 4.6 to 5.4 liters (and I think the 5.4 is just a stroked 4.6, though I'm not sure). When you consider its called the GT500, which was originally a big block, and the 5.4 liter is a "big bock" compared to the 4.6 (I know, its not really), it seems more and more that this is just a PR move by Ford.

astrocreep96 · Jun 22, 2005, 07:18 PM

Oh wait, I just read you said M122 Eaton, not M112. Huh, I guess that kind of takes the wind out of my argument there.

**WestSideBilly** · Jun 24, 2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrocreep96

That kind of makes me wonder why Ford would even use a bigger engine when the factory supercharger is still limited to the same output. Possibly for the consumer so they have more potential? But then that doesn't explain the weaker con-rods.

I'm beginning to wonder if Ford is simply doing it to follow in the footsteps of Chevy (yeah, I know, Ford guys will love this), i.e. Chevy increased the displacement of the LS1 to 6.0 liters and called it the LS2. Now Ford is increasing displacement from 4.6 to 5.4 liters (and I think the 5.4 is just a stroked 4.6, though I'm not sure). When you consider its called the GT500, which was originally a big block, and the 5.4 liter is a "big bock" compared to the 4.6 (I know, its not really), it seems more and more that this is just a PR move by Ford.

From a reliability/warranty perspective, it's much easier to get 450 HP out of a 5.4 Liter than it is out of a 4.6 Liter. There's minimal cost penalty (and it may actually be cheaper due to volumes) since the 5.4 iron block is a standard Ford truck offering. The 4.6L iron block would weigh almost as much so there's no weight penalty between the two.

I don't think the LS2 is a marketing move. The LS7 maybe (as 427 CI engines have some history). Extra displacement is just an inexpensive way to make reliable horsepower. That's why GM still uses a 3.8L V6 that develops less power than most Japanese companies 3.0L V6s.

DCSilvrEvo · Jun 24, 2005, 07:53 AM

Z06.

**WestSideBilly** · Jun 24, 2005, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrocreep96

Oh wait, I just read you said M122 Eaton, not M112. Huh, I guess that kind of takes the wind out of my argument there.

It's probably an M112. 1 and 2 are pretty close on the keyboard and typoes have been known to happen.

**WestSideBilly** · Jun 24, 2005, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCSilvrEvo

Z06.

$25,000 difference.

kdogg · Jun 24, 2005, 08:24 AM

It's called owner justification. 03/04 owners just want to find faults on the new GT500. So they can feel validated on keeping their cars and not jump on the GT500 bandwagon. It happens to all makes/models. Heck, people do it here with the 03/04/05, RS/GSR/MR, and VIII/IX arguments.

Regardless, the GT500 is a higher platform to work from with such a ridiculous price for that much power.