Car Wreck Thread [SUPER MERGED] - Page 104

sairaag · May 8, 2006, 06:55 PM

Poor Evo

chrisw · May 8, 2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtnct

This has nothing to do with track organizers. It is how the track is built. Usually, this course is used by motorcycle clubs as there is nothing to hit (safer for them that way). Some car clubs do rent this track as it is fun and more challenging than the other courses.

Not sure about this event or club, but I know PCA has a strict rule as to who goes on this track. It is only for advanced groups. No beginners, period. Having driven that course, I agree with their policy.

from: http://www.poconoraceway.com/trackrental/

I still think the track organizers screwed up by putting the grid too close to the track.

They could have easily put the grid off on a part of the track in such a way that you would leave plenty of run off room.

Like a few track day instructors have said already, the organizers (and possibly pocano raceway) are just about criminally negligent for putting the gridded cars so close to the track. It's not so much the cars I am concerned about, but all the track organizers that were there running the grid.

It's F**King stupid to put people and their cars so close to a high speed corner like that.

vtluu · May 8, 2006, 07:34 PM

I wouldn't be so quick to criticize the driver of the Evo. Obviously he (or she) made a mistake, but that's what beginners do--you, me and everybody else. They were driving over their head and that was a mistake as well, but again, nothing almost any of us haven't been guilty of at some point. Sure, it was a stupid mistake, but responsibility for the end result lies with many people.

Something people have failed to emphasize is what happened after the accident:
- If you see an incident ahead of you, don't drive towards it (!) and DON'T STOP unless you have to do so to avoid it; proceed safely past the incident, and await instructions from the flaggers--stop on a red flag, pit on the black flag. If in doubt, proceed through the course at a safe pace and pit.
- If you're involved in an incident on track, or if in this case you're gridded and an incident occurs, DON'T GET OUT OF YOUR CAR (unless you and/or the car are on fire). I saw a lot of people in the video standing around with cars still going by at speed. This simply defies common sense--you saw an accident and now you want to get out of your car, stand where it happened and hope another accident doesn't occur with you now exposed and totally unprotected?

The initial accident was bad enough; it's a wonder no-one else was hurt subsequently by the follow-up stupidity that I saw.

Highrever · May 8, 2006, 10:18 PM

Follow along here, The E30 M3 it happened in front of saw the whole thing, he actually let this nut by because of his driving, smart move

http://www.s14.net/forums/showthread...threadid=19186

Turd Squirter · May 9, 2006, 12:33 AM

What the hell planet are we on here? How, after watching the video, can we possibly blame anybody other than the guy in the Evo with his right foot pinned to the floor? Accountability? Let's all sue McDonalds because eating 3 Big Macs a day for 20 years gave us heart disease. My god! Nobody else took out any cars besides the Evo driver. Enough said.

vtluu · May 9, 2006, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turd Squirter

What the hell planet are we on here? How, after watching the video, can we possibly blame anybody other than the guy in the Evo with his right foot pinned to the floor? Accountability? Let's all sue McDonalds because eating 3 Big Macs a day for 20 years gave us heart disease. My god! Nobody else took out any cars besides the Evo driver. Enough said.

Have you ever been to the track or do you just like to criticize people about things you know nothing about?

The Evo driver's mistake was driving beyond his abilities and spinning off the track in an uncontrolled manner. No more, no less. A number of things could have been done differently, by several different parties, that would have changed the outcome. Studying track incidents isn't about laying blame, finding fault or assigning responsibility, it's about preventing future incidents.

The waivers track event participants sign should insulate everybody from fault, legally speaking. Now, if you damage someone else's car at an event and don't pay for it, they may not be able to sue you, but chances are you won't be welcomed to any other events.

mezz0 · May 9, 2006, 01:12 AM

ouch thats no good

South Side Evo · May 9, 2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turd Squirter

What the hell planet are we on here? How, after watching the video, can we possibly blame anybody other than the guy in the Evo with his right foot pinned to the floor? Accountability? Let's all sue McDonalds because eating 3 Big Macs a day for 20 years gave us heart disease. My god! Nobody else took out any cars besides the Evo driver. Enough said.

+1

South Side Evo · May 9, 2006, 01:34 AM

[quote=vtluu]
The Evo driver's mistake was driving beyond his abilities and spinning off the track in an uncontrolled manner. No more, no less. A number of things could have been done differently, by several different parties, that would have changed the outcome. Studying track incidents isn't about laying blame, finding fault or assigning responsibility, it's about preventing future incidents.
QUOTE]

There's a difference between driving beyond your abilities, and driving like an idiot because you believe you're the next Aryton Senna.

vtluu · May 9, 2006, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by South Side Evo

There's a difference between driving beyond your abilities, and driving like an idiot because you believe you're the next Aryton Senna.

Some might say that the latter is one example of the former. The former is a statement of fact. The latter is speculation as to the driver's psychology. Deal in facts.

I don't understand the obsession with assigning blame. My main two reactions are, "**** happens," and "Things should be done differently next time."

Anyway this has clearly devolved into another pointless EvoM argument. I'm out.

South Side Evo · May 9, 2006, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtluu

Deal in facts.

Fact is, this guy didn't adjust his driving style after his first two spin outs, and on the third time, he crashes into two parked cars. Based on people who were there, and actually spoke this guy, he wasn't listening to instruction (which means he wasn't trying to learn). Stop making sorry excuses for this fool. People like these, get other people killed.

varnsun · May 9, 2006, 06:29 AM

Here is IFlySolo, he is the one that posted the vid (S4).

http://forums.audiworld.com/nynj/msgs/84108.phtml

evo 8 ya · May 9, 2006, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varnsun

Here is IFlySolo, he is the one that posted the vid (S4).

http://forums.audiworld.com/nynj/msgs/84108.phtml

His name is a oxymoron cause he obviously doesn't

scorke · May 9, 2006, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Az3ar

This is absolutely wrong statement. When I sign a waver I assume that the event organizer has taken all the possible actions for safety. Which is Flags, Corner workers, clean track (no oil and coolant), etc etc...

Signing the waver does not mean that someone is going to shoot me in there. This pit area is dangerous and someone is going to get sued big time.

Signing the pit waiver doesnt mean that somebody is going to shoot you in there? I have no clue what that means. Az3ar I know you race around the northeast, but if you know pocono you would know thats how they grid PDA's and you would know that even the average off from anybody else would not of ended in those cars being hit unless the driver was being as reckless as this guy was.

And by the looks of things this track day satisfied all of your requirements, flags, cornerworkers, clean track, etc.etc... its nobody but his own fault, and your wrong nobody is going to get sued because of those waivers, don't you guys all understand that trackdays are a completely different entity than street driving, none of the same rules/laws carry over, if you eff your car up, thats it, theres no blame, because it happened on a track.....

Scorke

p.s. how on god's green earth did you pass 5th grade english?

evoone · May 9, 2006, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorke

Signing the pit waiver doesnt mean that somebody is going to shoot you in there? I have no clue what that means. Az3ar I know you race around the northeast, but if you know pocono you would know thats how they grid PDA's and you would know that even the average off from anybody else would not of ended in those cars being hit unless the driver was being as reckless as this guy was.

And by the looks of things this track day satisfied all of your requirements, flags, cornerworkers, clean track, etc.etc... its nobody but his own fault, and your wrong nobody is going to get sued because of those waivers, don't you guys all understand that trackdays are a completely different entity than street driving, none of the same rules/laws carry over, if you eff your car up, thats it, theres no blame, because it happened on a track.....

Scorke

p.s. how on god's green earth did you pass 5th grade english?

sooo... to get your point across you need to get personal. ohhh... big man on campus hiding behind his keyboard. why don't you give Az3ar your:

name
address
phone#

i'm sure Az3ar will contact you to schedule some lessons.