Car Wreck Thread [SUPER MERGED]

[evo55]

well one or two of the wheels on the left side loses traction. lsd kicks in, diverts power to the right wheels, then he over corrects the steering to the right with all the maximum turbo boost and then it fish tails. he could have lifted a little bit but hey he's driving an awd machine, no room for lifting gas.....lol.

[RoundPro]

+1...

Originally Posted by chrisw

ok... after watching this video, I repeat my first question?

Why the H**L were the cars gridded so close to the track outside the pit wall?

That is an incredibly stupid manuver by the track day organizers....

[heeltoer]

hey all,
Just a note about instructor behavior when you goto a HPDE event. It is a normal course of events to have an instructor reach over and guide the steering wheel when instructing. I have done this many times in the past becuase students simply dont want to turn in late or early (less frequently). No matter how many times I say it, it just never clicks in their mind until i help make the turn for them.
With that said, I ALWAYS present this as a possibility to my students before our first session. If the student doesn't like it or has high reservations about it then it won't be done. It is not unsafe if both parties agree, despite what your parents may have said

What you as a student should do:
If your instructor does not mention this, go ahead and ask if this is something the instructor may do. Some instructors have been doing this for a long time and assume that this is ok. Ask or let him/her know your preference.

If the instructor helps you with the steering, don't fight it. But also dont' take your hands off the wheel! Think of the instructor inputs as an active racing line traction device Also it is highly unlikely for instructors to grab the wheel in an emergency situation like spin, the car will probably already be past 90deg and wheel input won't do anything anyways. However in the unlikely event that this does happens, DON'T FIGHT IT. Instructors' instincts in these kind of situations is probably more developed and experienced than when you goto your first couple of events. It might just save your life.

Im not sure what happened in the video since the audio is covered by music and the video doesn't show everything so Im not going to make a statement one way or the other concerning the behavior in the video. For all we know there was a red flag not in view.

keep it safe out there.

-heeltoer
TMR/NorCal NASA instructor

PS using that location as the gridding area is close to criminally negligent.

[scorke]

Using that gridding area is no where close to criminally negligent, if you sign up to do a track day, you assume the risk and possibility that your car could be totaled and you can get seriously injured, if anybody signs up for a track day you know the risks involved, if not, why do you think you had to sign that lengthy waiver????

What happened is sad to say the least, but by no means is it really anything I could not see happening, granted there are safer ways to grid cars, if it were not for the lack of control shown by the kid in the MR there wouldnt of been a problem, and I agree that if he was solo, he clearly wasnt ready for it...

Scorke

[Richard EVO]

Originally Posted by scorke

Using that gridding area is no where close to criminally negligent, if you sign up to do a track day, you assume the risk and possibility that your car could be totaled and you can get seriously injured, if anybody signs up for a track day you know the risks involved, if not, why do you think you had to sign that lengthy waiver????

What happened is sad to say the least, but by no means is it really anything I could not see happening, granted there are safer ways to grid cars, if it were not for the lack of control shown by the kid in the MR there wouldnt of been a problem, and I agree that if he was solo, he clearly wasnt ready for it...

Scorke

That is the stupidest grid area I have ever seen. It is right next to cars taking a turn on a hot track and there is no pit wall, no fence, no nothing. The track and the event organizer are 100% at fault here for an incredilby negligent grid setup.

If I sign a waiver when I go to the track, I don't expect them to drop a boulder on it as I am flying down the front straight.

[DreamLike1]

Im sorry but not enough is being said about the driver of the Evo. This jackass needs to get himself into an '88 Geo Metro because he clearly has no idea how to handle a high performance vehilcle.

Yes mistakes happen, and we are all human. But part of being human is learning from your mistakes and it sounds like this guy had plenty of chances that day to learn. Judging from the posts on the lotus forum the Evo driver went off the track twice. A third time is astonishing. Whoever you are - you're a complete loser.

When you cant figure out after spinning off TWICE, that you're pushing it too much then you are a F*ING idiot. I would have punched that guy in the FACE.

[heeltoer]

Originally Posted by scorke

Using that gridding area is no where close to criminally negligent, if you sign up to do a track day, you assume the risk and possibility that your car could be totaled and you can get seriously injured, if anybody signs up for a track day you know the risks involved, if not, why do you think you had to sign that lengthy waiver????

Hate to say this but waivers are not an excuse for the organizers to be unsafe. I don't care how stupid the driver involved maybe but gridding cars at that location is just asking for an accident. What if someone blew an engine and oil was on the track and the organizers left it there, would they not be responsible? Hell once youve signed a waiver why even bother with corner workers or an ambulance, u signed your life away right?

Im sorry but a waiver is only as good as long as I can trust the other party did everything they could to keep the event safe. In this case that is obviously not the case. I mention criminally becuase someone could have very easily gotten hurt or killed in this incident or one like it

[South Side Evo]

The driver of the crashed Evo, obviously thought he can drive, but in reality he is talentless with a heavy right foot. What is this guys name? What does he look like? He's one guy I want to recognize from a mile away (maybe even further).

[evoone]

the only one who is to blame here is the event planner/ track organization. thats ludicrious to let drivers and their cars park so close to the track without their being some sort of barrier... totally irressponsible, stupidity comes to mind... someone could have been seriously hurt or killed. f@#K the insurance, obviously someone doesn't know murphy's law. this is something you would see happen at a street race. who are these local yokel's.

for the sideways evo, i know your here and your going to need representation.

tell'em the evoone sent u.







JAK@KAIMANLAW.COM

[Ludikraut]

Hmm, couple of comments:
1.) The Evo driver is a complete moron.
2.) If you spun out with an instructor, you should not be allowed to drive by yourself for the remainder of the day(s) of the HPDE event
3.) Why are they staging cars when the previous run group is still going full blast? Is it sooo critical to save a few minutes? The cars should have been staged much further back, or not at all, until the cool down lap of the previous group.

What a waste.

I still don't understand the path the Evo took, though. It's almost like the driver never hit the brakes and either coasted or hit the gas. Hard on the brakes should have cause either a tail spin to the left or a straight brake ... moron.

l8r)

[South Side Evo]

Originally Posted by evoone

the only one who is to blame here is the event planner/ track organization. thats ludicrious to let drivers and their cars park so close to the track without their being some sort of barrier... totally irressponsible, stupidity comes to mind... someone could have been seriously hurt or killed. f@#K the insurance, obviously someone doesn't know murphy's law. this is something you would see happen at a street race. who are these local yokel's.

for the sideways evo, i know your here and your going to need representation.

tell'em the evoone sent u.







JAK@KAIMANLAW.COM

I bet you believe OJ didn't do it.

[wookie]

"My dad has a killer set of tools.........."

What waste of some nice cars.

[dubbleugly01]

any boilerplate waiver has a very poor chance of standing up in a court of law. Signing that waiver will not relieve the track or organizer from showing good judgement. Yes, the EVO driver was/is an idiot, but it'll be the track and the organizer that are in the hot seat from the NSX and GS owner.

[Az3ar]

Originally Posted by scorke

Using that gridding area is no where close to criminally negligent, if you sign up to do a track day, you assume the risk and possibility that your car could be totaled and you can get seriously injured, if anybody signs up for a track day you know the risks involved, if not, why do you think you had to sign that lengthy waiver????

This is absolutely wrong statement. When I sign a waver I assume that the event organizer has taken all the possible actions for safety. Which is Flags, Corner workers, clean track (no oil and coolant), etc etc...

Signing the waver does not mean that someone is going to shoot me in there. This pit area is dangerous and someone is going to get sued big time.

[hotrod2448]

That sucks for everyone involved. There's no reason to assign blame because there is more than enough of it to go around.

Bottom line those cars shouldn't have been that close to a hot track and the driver should have had his wings clipped either by the coordinators, instructors, or his self preservation instinct before it came to that.

Glad no one got hurt and sorry for the G35 and NSX owners. Hell I'm even sorry for the Evo owner because there shouldn't have been anything there to hit, no one made him check up, and he will now (even though deserving) be flamed on a multitude of forums which I will be guilty of kind of enjoying reading.