Oh my god! spend $550 on mod and no HP increase!! (LONG)

[Kayaalp]

Originally posted by Lightsped
How is insurance handled at these events?...That is what has kept me off the track. I am afraid I might rub up against a wall or bend a fender and the insurance folks wouldn't want to do any repairs since I was on private property at a track event.

It's not generally an issue. For one thing, your instructor will make sure you are not past your comfort/ability level. Novices almost never get into trouble. It's the more advanced guys that tend to get in over their heads.

Further, BMW CCA driving schools are not considered a sporting event. They are considered a driving school, very much like the defensive driving schools offered and sanctioned by the state department of motor vehicles. In fact, we can even claim the cost of a driving school as an "academic tuition expense" on our tax returns.

The schools are very carefully organized (and must follow strict guidelines) so that they cannot be interpreted as sporting events under any circumstances. Obviously, time trials, Auto-X, etc. where people are timing and competing against each other would be considered sporting...but not a drivers school. So any damage you sustain at a school should be treated the same as any damage you might incur at a DMV-sanctioned defensive driving school. The fact that it takes place on private property is not an issue.

Having said that, some insurance companies have gone ahead and specifically disallowed coverage for driving schools organized by private clubs. That's a different story. However, most insurers will still provide coverage, at least here in the US and Canada. You just have to check with them first. Further, you can alwayus get supplemental insurance from some companies that specialize in that kind of thing.

[Mister2zx3]

Anyone, Anywhere has access to a car club that runs track events, usually every single weekend of the year ( On any given Sunday...) Stop making excuses and denying yourself such an incredible oppurtunity for perma-grin doing the best mod you can. To the nut behind the wheel.

Those out there with reasons/excuses/whatever. Just stop. Zip It. Go DO IT! The old you have nothing to fear but fear itself.. well stop being a chicken, stop spending more time worrying and denying yourself than simply going out and having FUN... You will not be anything but ecstatic.. on your first lap, 10th lap, 100th lap, 10,000th lap years to come... It just gets better.

[EVOSTEVO]

first off BlewEvo is that your car... that shot is awesome and 2nd i heard that just by putting in some harnesses in your car helps because you dont have to hang on the the steering wheel and it gives you a much better feel of the car in turns.

-steve

[BlewEvo]

..

[fastmarsh]

This is a good explanation of this particular school. Thanks

Originally posted by Kayaalp

It's not generally an issue. For one thing, your instructor will make sure you are not past your comfort/ability level. Novices almost never get into trouble. It's the more advanced guys that tend to get in over their heads.

Further, BMW CCA driving schools are not considered a sporting event. They are considered a driving school, very much like the defensive driving schools offered and sanctioned by the state department of motor vehicles. In fact, we can even claim the cost of a driving school as an "academic tuition expense" on our tax returns.

The schools are very carefully organized (and must follow strict guidelines) so that they cannot be interpreted as sporting events under any circumstances. Obviously, time trials, Auto-X, etc. where people are timing and competing against each other would be considered sporting...but not a drivers school. So any damage you sustain at a school should be treated the same as any damage you might incur at a DMV-sanctioned defensive driving school. The fact that it takes place on private property is not an issue.

Having said that, some insurance companies have gone ahead and specifically disallowed coverage for driving schools organized by private clubs. That's a different story. However, most insurers will still provide coverage, at least here in the US and Canada. You just have to check with them first. Further, you can alwayus get supplemental insurance from some companies that specialize in that kind of thing.

[Kayaalp]

Originally posted by EVOSTEVO
i heard that just by putting in some harnesses in your car helps because you dont have to hang on the the steering wheel and it gives you a much better feel of the car in turns.

Uh oh...are you sure you want to open this can of worms?

There's a lot of debate about this. Most agree that harnesses are only safe if you have roll-protection, shoulder-level mounting of the shoulder belts, an anti-sub strap (or two...depending on seat-back angle), and proper slots in your seats. For some freaky reason, our Recaros do not have a slot for an anti-sub strap. Ridiculous.

But many people feel that they're not going to crash anyway and they only want the harnesses to hold them in their seats better. Some autocrossers fall into this category. So they don't worry about the lack of anti-sub and extreme angle over the shoulder straps that the cheap 2" 4-point harnesses use. Personally, I would never use one of these things on the track...but I've spent lots of years in trauma centers and seen enough blunt abdo trauma and spinal injuries to know a bad thing when I see it.

Emre

[Cali_EVO]

Your insurance company won't particularlly like to see a claim if you are doing an open track event.

I've seen cars totalled and the insurance company will fight, eventually pay, and then drop you like a stone.

i agree, thats probably what will happen if you get into major accident at the track...


i use AAA and i called my agent before the event and check if its covered. The agent said yes even when I mentioned the driving school takes place on a race track.

thats why i would stay away from "open track days" by other clubs where anyone can pay and drive on a track solo without insturtor nex to you... very bad things can happen with immature driver + no supervision, no way i am putting myself in that kind of eviroment

like KAYAALP said, your instructor will almost always keep you outta trouble if you are willing to listen!

[Mister2zx3]

There are a lot of opinions on that, but mine is tha harness will help you stay in place and make driving fast more relaxed and easier. The seat belt is meant to hold you in place and the harness is only going to do the job right. The seatbelt doesn't do that well. I'm more concerned with street cars having their airbags operable on the track. I'd rather stay in control of the steering wheel with a harness than have an airbag deploy blinding me.

[fastmarsh]

Absolutely.

That's why several of the clubs have different levels of experience. The instructors must also sign off on the student before they advance to the next level as well as attend more than one event as a novice.

The students also do an evaluation of the instuctor so that you can become a better instructor. I had an incident where a student said that he didn't get enough track time (4hours) and that he couldn't hear my instruction in the car. Of course, he explained at the end of the day as we were doing this that he was 80% deaf!!! This student wasn't signed off, BTW.

AS far as the safety equipement in the car, lets save that for another thread as this one is going too well.

[Kayaalp]

Originally posted by Mister2zx3
There are a lot of opinions on that, but mine is tha harness will help you stay in place and make driving fast more relaxed and easier. The seat belt is meant to hold you in place and the harness is only going to do the job right. The seatbelt doesn't do that well.

That's totally reasonable. As long as you are aware that in a high-speed frontal impact, your chances of sustaining abdominal and spinal injuries are higher than with a stock belt. It's a long and boring story...I can get into it if you want (but I don't want to bore everyone). Also, in a rollover you will probably die, whereas you have a chance of surviving with the stock belts.

Originally posted by Mister2zx3
thats why i would stay away from "open track days" by other clubs where anyone can pay and drive on a track solo without insturtor nex to you... very bad things can happen with immature driver + no supervision, no way i am putting myself in that kind of evironment.

I couldn't agree more. Open track days are just asking for trouble. I've done 2 and packed it in early both times due to recklessness on the part of other drivers and inadequate safety measures on the part of organizers. Never again.

Emre

[Kayaalp]

Originally posted by fastmarsh
As far as the safety equipement in the car, lets save that for another thread as this one is going too well.

Agreed

Please ignore my last message!

Emre

[Mxt 1]

Originally posted by Kayaalp


There are plenty of options out there. Once you are a member of any chapter of the CCA, you are welcome at events run by any other chapter of the CCA or the BMW Club of Canada. You can literally run events at almost any track in the US and Canada since there are chapters all over the place.

I can join BMWCCA without being a BMW owner?

[fastmarsh]

Yes, you can join BMW/CCA without having a BMW.

[Cali_EVO]

oh man,

now the thread is gonna die in the "off topic" forum..


.

[Kayaalp]

Thanks, Mods, for moving this to the Motor Sports forum!

Emre