Your Thoughts on Front Bumper Canards...
Nov 23, 2009, 12:54 PM
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Your Thoughts on Front Bumper Canards...
I just ordered a carbon fiber rear wing for my Evo 8, that I use at the track.
The front already has a carbon fiber front splitter under the stock bumper.
With the new rear wing making more down force in the rear, I want to balance the car by giving a little more front down force with side mounted bumper canards.
I like the Voltex model, but I'm told they require modification to fit on a stock front bumper. Twin canards would be ideal, but single canards would be fine, so long as they do their job on the track.
What experience do you guys have with these, and which would you recommend?
Thanks.
The front already has a carbon fiber front splitter under the stock bumper.
With the new rear wing making more down force in the rear, I want to balance the car by giving a little more front down force with side mounted bumper canards.
I like the Voltex model, but I'm told they require modification to fit on a stock front bumper. Twin canards would be ideal, but single canards would be fine, so long as they do their job on the track.
What experience do you guys have with these, and which would you recommend?
Thanks.
Nov 24, 2009, 01:49 AM
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They don't do much at all when they're very small. A front "wing" using tunnels is the best thing, but since that's not an option, the canard spoilers are probably the next best thing. If you're not racing in a class that specifies, you can build your own and build them quite large. Most canards are made to not span wider than the bodywork to comply with rules. You can really get some SERIOUS downforce if you make good use of the undisturbed free air hitting the front of your car.
Nov 24, 2009, 10:36 AM
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Canards are not really for downforce at all, but to manage air traveling around the car. This reduces drag and minimizes air flowing from the side of the car to the underside. thats how they "create" downforce.
Nov 24, 2009, 01:13 PM
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If I understand their use correctly, then the answer should be "both". Canards, depending on their size and shape can be used either as wings or as vortex generators. If you look at the Toyota pictures, the size and placement of the canard would suggest that it is being used to add front downforce and perhaps direct more air towards the rear wing. The A4 DTM car, on the other hand looks like it is using the top canard as a combination wing/VG and the bottom canard more as a VG, as the vortex generated by the lower canard should help seal the underbody.
To answer the OP, I'd say that unless you're running a full aero package, the canards won't do that much. An adjustable front splitter would probably be a better way to go, if you can find one.
l8r)
To answer the OP, I'd say that unless you're running a full aero package, the canards won't do that much. An adjustable front splitter would probably be a better way to go, if you can find one.
l8r)
Nov 24, 2009, 01:57 PM
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Adjustable front splitter? Now there's a term I'm not familiar with. How does the splitter adjust? Inward and outward? Or, up and down?
Regarding the front splitter, if the canards really do not generate downforce... would a larger, wider front splitter protruding further past the front bumper line help with more front downforce?
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Nov 24, 2009, 06:23 PM
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most rules say the splitter can not go past the furthest part of the front bumper.
so for instance, if you look straight down the splitter should not jut out past the bumper support.
if you are doing time attack or just hpde's you can do what ever you want.
I have noticed a big difference when i installed a front splitter on my hpde ITR, and it only extends about three inches out.
so for instance, if you look straight down the splitter should not jut out past the bumper support.
if you are doing time attack or just hpde's you can do what ever you want.
I have noticed a big difference when i installed a front splitter on my hpde ITR, and it only extends about three inches out.
Nov 24, 2009, 10:49 PM
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Id step up to a real, adjustable splitter, way way before Id add canards. Im talking, it should hold 150+ lbs. If it cant hold that much, it cant generate that much. It should be able to adjust in and out, and should have a decent sized "under-tray" section, and possibly ducts to vent air into the fenderwells.
Nov 25, 2009, 06:10 AM
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All of the splitters that I have had, and have seen, were seemingly of the "fixed" design.
Exactly how can you make the splitter adjustable?
Thanks
Exactly how can you make the splitter adjustable?
Thanks
Nov 25, 2009, 10:20 AM
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You've got to figure that race class rules are cleverly written to limit the rules on the parts that are most effected by change. This means that if rules say you have to have a short splitter, it is probably beneficial (to a point) to have a really long one. If they say body work can't extend past the fenders, it likely has less to do with possible damage (as the race class would tell you) and has more to do with limiting a performance feature of a car.
And adjustable splitter usually means it can adjust its angle relative to the ground plane. A couple degrees angled up (nose pointing to the sky) actually produces the best results from what I've heard.
I actually have seen data testing on canard spoilers, and yes, in the case of small "diverters" the things do little more than direct air. They also cause a large vortex and it is fairly difficult to direct it. When they are larger and formed into wing shapes, they really do add a significant amount of downforce. The front splitter doesn't actually seem to add downforce as much as it removes lift, I'm not sure many cars are able to hold themselves to the ground via a piece of flat carbon fiber. The idea behind the splitter is to close the gap between the car and the ground and speed up the air going under the car. The panel also needs to be smooth so air flow stays at a high velocity/low pressure as it passes under the car. The shape of nearly all cars means that air always has a longer path going over the top and around the sides of a car than under it, thus they almost always create lift.
The Corvette I drove in Petit this year had a front wing that looked like a splitter from the outside. It had 2 VERY large venturi tunnels underneath it that exited in front of the exhaust pipes on the rocker panel. I've driven a lot of cars with flat splitters of all different shapes and lengths and NOTHING came close to the downforce of that front wing. This is how ALL the ALMS GT2 cars are designed now. Gone are the times of reducing lift, now is the era of actual front downforce.
Though this sounds very difficult to pull off on a time attack/track car with no factory funding, it may not be impossible. I am building a similar design on my time attack project and it hasn't proven to be too bad quite yet. The best thing you could do in an unlimited-class situation is build a splitter with a lot of length to the limit that it will break off if it hits something. It also needs to be as long as possible under the car-- a perfect scenario would be it continuing on to a flat under body and exit the rear in a diffuser. These types of tricks help aero dramatically but nobody seems to put in the leg work to pull them off!
And adjustable splitter usually means it can adjust its angle relative to the ground plane. A couple degrees angled up (nose pointing to the sky) actually produces the best results from what I've heard.
I actually have seen data testing on canard spoilers, and yes, in the case of small "diverters" the things do little more than direct air. They also cause a large vortex and it is fairly difficult to direct it. When they are larger and formed into wing shapes, they really do add a significant amount of downforce. The front splitter doesn't actually seem to add downforce as much as it removes lift, I'm not sure many cars are able to hold themselves to the ground via a piece of flat carbon fiber. The idea behind the splitter is to close the gap between the car and the ground and speed up the air going under the car. The panel also needs to be smooth so air flow stays at a high velocity/low pressure as it passes under the car. The shape of nearly all cars means that air always has a longer path going over the top and around the sides of a car than under it, thus they almost always create lift.
The Corvette I drove in Petit this year had a front wing that looked like a splitter from the outside. It had 2 VERY large venturi tunnels underneath it that exited in front of the exhaust pipes on the rocker panel. I've driven a lot of cars with flat splitters of all different shapes and lengths and NOTHING came close to the downforce of that front wing. This is how ALL the ALMS GT2 cars are designed now. Gone are the times of reducing lift, now is the era of actual front downforce.
Though this sounds very difficult to pull off on a time attack/track car with no factory funding, it may not be impossible. I am building a similar design on my time attack project and it hasn't proven to be too bad quite yet. The best thing you could do in an unlimited-class situation is build a splitter with a lot of length to the limit that it will break off if it hits something. It also needs to be as long as possible under the car-- a perfect scenario would be it continuing on to a flat under body and exit the rear in a diffuser. These types of tricks help aero dramatically but nobody seems to put in the leg work to pull them off!
Last edited by MATT@WORKS; Nov 25, 2009 at 10:27 AM.
Nov 25, 2009, 03:33 PM
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You've got to figure that race class rules are cleverly written to limit the rules on the parts that are most effected by change. This means that if rules say you have to have a short splitter, it is probably beneficial (to a point) to have a really long one. If they say body work can't extend past the fenders, it likely has less to do with possible damage (as the race class would tell you) and has more to do with limiting a performance feature of a car.
And adjustable splitter usually means it can adjust its angle relative to the ground plane. A couple degrees angled up (nose pointing to the sky) actually produces the best results from what I've heard.
I actually have seen data testing on canard spoilers, and yes, in the case of small "diverters" the things do little more than direct air. They also cause a large vortex and it is fairly difficult to direct it. When they are larger and formed into wing shapes, they really do add a significant amount of downforce. The front splitter doesn't actually seem to add downforce as much as it removes lift, I'm not sure many cars are able to hold themselves to the ground via a piece of flat carbon fiber. The idea behind the splitter is to close the gap between the car and the ground and speed up the air going under the car. The panel also needs to be smooth so air flow stays at a high velocity/low pressure as it passes under the car. The shape of nearly all cars means that air always has a longer path going over the top and around the sides of a car than under it, thus they almost always create lift.
The Corvette I drove in Petit this year had a front wing that looked like a splitter from the outside. It had 2 VERY large venturi tunnels underneath it that exited in front of the exhaust pipes on the rocker panel. I've driven a lot of cars with flat splitters of all different shapes and lengths and NOTHING came close to the downforce of that front wing. This is how ALL the ALMS GT2 cars are designed now. Gone are the times of reducing lift, now is the era of actual front downforce.
Though this sounds very difficult to pull off on a time attack/track car with no factory funding, it may not be impossible. I am building a similar design on my time attack project and it hasn't proven to be too bad quite yet. The best thing you could do in an unlimited-class situation is build a splitter with a lot of length to the limit that it will break off if it hits something. It also needs to be as long as possible under the car-- a perfect scenario would be it continuing on to a flat under body and exit the rear in a diffuser. These types of tricks help aero dramatically but nobody seems to put in the leg work to pull them off!
And adjustable splitter usually means it can adjust its angle relative to the ground plane. A couple degrees angled up (nose pointing to the sky) actually produces the best results from what I've heard.
I actually have seen data testing on canard spoilers, and yes, in the case of small "diverters" the things do little more than direct air. They also cause a large vortex and it is fairly difficult to direct it. When they are larger and formed into wing shapes, they really do add a significant amount of downforce. The front splitter doesn't actually seem to add downforce as much as it removes lift, I'm not sure many cars are able to hold themselves to the ground via a piece of flat carbon fiber. The idea behind the splitter is to close the gap between the car and the ground and speed up the air going under the car. The panel also needs to be smooth so air flow stays at a high velocity/low pressure as it passes under the car. The shape of nearly all cars means that air always has a longer path going over the top and around the sides of a car than under it, thus they almost always create lift.
The Corvette I drove in Petit this year had a front wing that looked like a splitter from the outside. It had 2 VERY large venturi tunnels underneath it that exited in front of the exhaust pipes on the rocker panel. I've driven a lot of cars with flat splitters of all different shapes and lengths and NOTHING came close to the downforce of that front wing. This is how ALL the ALMS GT2 cars are designed now. Gone are the times of reducing lift, now is the era of actual front downforce.
Though this sounds very difficult to pull off on a time attack/track car with no factory funding, it may not be impossible. I am building a similar design on my time attack project and it hasn't proven to be too bad quite yet. The best thing you could do in an unlimited-class situation is build a splitter with a lot of length to the limit that it will break off if it hits something. It also needs to be as long as possible under the car-- a perfect scenario would be it continuing on to a flat under body and exit the rear in a diffuser. These types of tricks help aero dramatically but nobody seems to put in the leg work to pull them off!
