Most bang for my buck STU

Nsomniac · Jul 8, 2009, 03:10 PM

Current car: Stock Evo X on star specs. I have an accessport, but believe it's not legal so I reprogram it to stock prior to events. I also have the car aligned to -1 degree camber in the front and back. I know I can increase that more, but need to find a better shop that knows what they are doing first.

Anyways - I'm finishing in the top 5 most events (PAX) and 1st in my class, and I am consistently within .1-.3 seconds of the top spot. Two of those drivers are top 20 drivers from nationals last year, and have a ton of experience on me, so I feel like my driving is pretty solid for a 3rd year driver.

Our bonuses and things got cut this year, so a new suspension was out of the question. That being said, would it be worth it for me to get a new front/rear sway bar kit if I'm keeping the stock suspension until next year? Is that going to give me any advantage this year, maybe allowing me to catch the leaders if my driving continues to improve like it has?

Also, if there are any other ideas, please toss them out there. I'm pretty set on staying in STU right now because I can't go with a second set of rims/tires for R-comps, and A-stock vs. S2000's isn't very fun. Also, if someone can give me a more definitive answer about the ability to use the AP maps in STU, I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

drewgray · Jul 8, 2009, 03:25 PM

You can use AP maps as long as no value regarding boost is touched.

spool_sample · Jul 8, 2009, 03:26 PM

Concerning the AP: the only maps legal in STU are 1) stock and 2) one that doesn't change boost. If you're running a Stage 1 or 2 map, it's illegal. There is likely some power left in the car if you just tune it without changing boost, but IMO, until you have the suspension sorted, it's a waste of time. If you aren't happy with how the car handles, you can't really use the extra power.

As far as bang for the buck mods, rear sway bar and alignment for sure. Set bar to full stiff. If you can flip the front camber bolts like the Evo 8/9 then you can get a decent amount of camber up front. Run as much camber as possible in the front and a slight bit of toe out up front (or 0 if it's a daily), and go to town.

After that, you're really just a set of good coilovers away from having a pretty competitive car.

goofygrin · Jul 8, 2009, 04:39 PM

Where are you at? A stock Evo X here wouldn't really be competitive at all in STU.

Your AP is legal -- just the maps that are provided are not. You can use ATR to make changes/log a tune that only changes timing, fueling, and MIVEC (no boost). You'll need a wideband though.

My recommendations for low buck mods?

- brake pads
- $25 camber bolts. You flip the top bolt like on the VIII/IX to make the paint dot away from the strut (~-2* camber). Then you put the eccentric bolt in the bottom and you should be able to get to about -3*). (http://www.clubrsx.com/cr/SPC-81260.html)

After that... it's a tossup. Two schools of thought, springs/sways, coilovers/sways. The front sway did more for me than the rear sway, but it was 4000x harder to install.

Other things you can do and stay legal in STU:
- intake
- exhaust (full turbo back, but you have to keep a cat)
- stainless brake lines

You should also consider a CG Lock or a harness to help keep you in the car.

WAM · Jul 8, 2009, 08:23 PM

You really ought to do your own alignment. Front camber is pretty important and you don't really have to adjust it...you only get to choose between the two settings. (Not counting Goofy's extra cam bolt) But then you have to reset your toe and that can be done with just a 7/8 open wrench to loosen the jam nut and a 13mm to rotate the tie-rod. By turning the steering wheel, you can do it without even jacking the car. But mark the tie rod with tape or something and keep track of it. On my X one turn each side changes it from 1/8" in to 1/4" out. My camber came out 2.6 and 2.8 degrees with just the top bolt repositioned. Go the longacre site and check out their toe measurement system. It's pretty cheap, but once you see how they do it you can duplicate it for practically nothing. (two aluminum plates and two tape measures.)

I submitted this to the alignment sticky (msg #21):

Stock Wheel and Alignment Specifications

If you want to try something cheap, but 'out there', drill your shock tubes, drain but capture the fluid, and replace that same amount with a high viscosity shock fluid from a motorcycle shop. Then cover with a rubber patch and secure it with a radiator hose clamp. Don't know for sure if you can do this on the Evo struts, but I've done it on other cars. And you WERE going to upgrade the shocks next year anyway, right?

Goofy, I keep hearing about how hard it is to change out the front SB. I know you have to take off at least one wheel, but what all makes it so hard? Is there an install thread you can point me to?

goofygrin · Jul 8, 2009, 09:47 PM

you have to take the front subframe off

ETA: if you got 2.8* of camber with the stock suspension and bolts, then you need to find a different alignment tech... because it ain't happening unless they fudge the computer.

You have an iphone? Get the level app and verify it.

WAM · Jul 8, 2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofygrin

ETA: if you got 2.8* of camber with the stock suspension and bolts, then you need to find a different alignment tech... because it ain't happening unless they fudge the computer.
You have an iphone? Get the level app and verify it.

Measuring over a 22" vertical reference, the top of the tire leans in 1.07". Maybe I did the math wrong, (show me) but my calculator says that's 2.8 degrees.

1.07/22 = .0486
arc tan .0486 = 2.78 degrees

Don't need no iphone...gotta a watkins pro digital camber gauge. But I've changed the ride height an inch since those measurements, so it would be a little bit apples and oranges. My coilover supplier is sending me some new pieces, so I'll double check everything again when it comes off my lift. BTW, I just ordered your cambolts...thanx for the tip.

sQuid^ · Jul 9, 2009, 07:44 AM

Hey goofy, did you install those eccentric bolts on your evo x?

That seems like a great way to get more camber!

goofygrin · Jul 9, 2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAM

Measuring over a 22" vertical reference, the top of the tire leans in 1.07". Maybe I did the math wrong, (show me) but my calculator says that's 2.8 degrees.

1.07/22 = .0486
arc tan .0486 = 2.78 degrees

Don't need no iphone...gotta a watkins pro digital camber gauge. But I've changed the ride height an inch since those measurements, so it would be a little bit apples and oranges. My coilover supplier is sending me some new pieces, so I'll double check everything again when it comes off my lift. BTW, I just ordered your cambolts...thanx for the tip.

I'm just saying, _most_ people are getting 1.8-2.0 with just the top bolt flipped. If you're getting an extra degree, then either your car has something bent, was built sloppily or is a freak. All of which are valid options

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sQuid^

Hey goofy, did you install those eccentric bolts on your evo x?

That seems like a great way to get more camber!

I did, but then I removed them when I got new brackets on my coilovers... so now I'm up to > -4.5* of camber.

Evo_Someday has them in his VIII and he's getting ~3*

WAM · Jul 9, 2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofygrin

I'm just saying, _most_ people are getting 1.8-2.0 with just the top bolt flipped. If you're getting an extra degree, then either your car has something bent, was built sloppily or is a freak. All of which are valid options

Yeah, I understand your point. The car has been rallycrossed a couple times so damage isn't out of the question. But I've since pulled those struts, installing coilovers. The original struts look perfect to me. Dunno.

I do bias the suspension towards maximum camber with a bottle jack prior to tightening the bolts, top & bottom. Maybe a lot of people skip that step?

goofygrin · Jul 9, 2009, 09:09 AM

I've heard of people using a tow strap

I can't imagine that setting the camber that way
a) sticks
b) doesn't damage anything

But... I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn last night! :P

drewgray · Jul 9, 2009, 09:44 AM

I was able to get ~ -2.5* out of the stock bolts, and can get -4* out of just camber bolts up front. eh...

WAM · Jul 9, 2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofygrin

I've heard of people using a tow strap

I can't imagine that setting the camber that way
a) sticks
b) doesn't damage anything

But... I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn last night! :P

I'm not putting a lot of force on anything with the jack. Just taking out all the slop in the maximum camber direction before tightening the bolts. If you tighten the bolts with the suspension hanging all the slop in the system goes the other way.

A better way would be to mount the wheels & tires and settle the car to ride height before tightening any suspension bolts. You could do it with blocks under the tires, but seems a lot of work.