Mirage head probs I think. Senate help!!!

imalancerman · Jun 19, 2009, 08:33 PM

So just got my motor rebuilt, got it all slapped back in, and I had hooked up the crank angle sensor and the coil pack right next to it backwards, like the plugs are the same and right next to each other so my coil plug hooked into my crank angle sensor and vice versa.. I did a search and it said that when this happens, it can fry the ecu. However, I also have a mirage head and Ive read about it saying it has a different cam angle sensor. Heres the deal, neither of my coil packs is firing. If it had fried the ecu, one would still fire was the consensus with the post I read. So Im wondering if that means I have to change out my cam angle sensor to get it to fire and I might not have a fried ecu yet? I dont even smell gas on the tips of the plugs. Here is my dilemma on that one. I dont know exactly what a cam angle sensor looks like. Lol. Ive never had to deal with that stuff before. I tried a search on mirage head and 4g93 head but have yet to find any info. If someone could please help me and reassure me that I havent fried the ecu. The post said a burnt electrical smell would accompany the ecu after this in which case there isnt any smell. So I still have my lancer head sitting here. I had to change heads because the lancer head was burning oil like crazy. So anyways, if you guys could please help me or point me in the right direction, thatd be great. Thanks.

senate6268 · Jun 19, 2009, 10:29 PM

The easiest way to distinguish between the crank position sensor harness and coil pack harness is the covering leading up to the harness connector. The coil pack harness has a smooth covering over the wires (just like the coil pack harness on the driver side) and the crank position sensor is a ribbed wire loom leading up to the connector.

The camshaft position sensor is located on the driver side of the cylinder head as the diagram shows. The view in the diagram would be if you were standing by the driver side fender looking into the engine bay at the cylinder head. The sensor has one bolt that holds it in place.

Sorry for late response. Just got back from seeing The Hangover. Totally hilarious movie.

imalancerman · Jun 20, 2009, 12:53 AM

Ya I got that wire cover thing only after we'd tried starting it. It sounds a little funny for compression but I still have no spark in either of the coil packs after changing that sensor. Compression wouldnt have anything to do with the packs not firing though. The starter sound is kinda like rrr rrr rrrrrrrr, rrr rrr rrrrrrrr, rrr rrr rrrrrrr over and over rather than the traditional rrr rrr rrr rrr. And I can hear pop pop coming from the exhaust on the rrrrrrr part of the starter sound.
Anyways, ya, what else would cause my coils not to fire? I researched again for more info about the ecu being fried but cant find much more info on it. But like I said, the general consensus was that one pack would fire and the other wouldnt. And I dont see why two coil packs would magically go bad out of nowhere. I think I may have a cel so Ill try and check that on monday. But any info before then would be great. I need to get a compression tester too.

I wish everything was all plug and play. So I havent read anything that stated it, but will hooking the two up backwards fry either the coil packs or the crank angle sensor? My passenger coil pack was getting pretty hot.
One more question, I dont think Im getting fuel either. When I pull the plugs, they dont smell like gas. Kinda points at the crank angle sensor. However, when I did a search online to find one to order, i cant find one. It just keeps coming up with cam angle sensor. Help?

senate6268 · Jun 20, 2009, 08:35 AM

Lack of compression would not prevent the coil packs or injectors from working. I'm not entirely convinced that you damaged your ECU.

It sounds like you may have fried your crank position sensor. The ECU feeds voltage to the coil packs, where as it takes a voltage reading from the crank position sensor. There will be a CEL for P0335 if the crank position sensor is bad. This does seem like the culprit here. But pulling the CEL will tell.

You may or may not have also damaged the 2-3 coil pack with the harness mixup. You won't be able to check this until the engine has fuel and spark.

Sensor on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2002-02-MITSUBIS...3286.m20.l1116

It can also be found on rockauto.com under 2002 Lancer : Ignition : Crankshaft position sensor.

Your third alternative would be to start a WTB (want to buy) thread in the Lancer for sale area for the sensor. That would be the cost effective route, as the sensor is $50-60 new.

imalancerman · Jun 20, 2009, 12:46 PM

Alright senate. The code is a p0340 which is a camshaft position sensor circuit malfunction. Thank god for the tactrix cable. This must be the problem ive read about with the mirage head. Ive tried both the sensor from the mirage head and the sensor from the lancer head which I KNOW is good. So do you know what it is on the mirage head Im supposed to change? Cause its apparently not the sensor itself. The two cps are identical btw. Ill include pics if you want. The heads are completely identical in my eyes. I must be missing some small detail or something. Anyways, this makes things a little more hopeful in my eyes. And less costly.......I hope. Thank you senate.

LancerEVA06 · Jun 20, 2009, 12:58 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong; but the cam sensor normally controls fuel, and the crank sensor normally controls spark.

imalancerman · Jun 20, 2009, 01:32 PM

Um I dont think thats right but I dont fully know yet so dont take my word on it. You guys ready for this? Check your heads when you get them from junkyards. I havent started my car yet so I dont know if this fixed it cause Im waiting for silicone to dry. I took off the end cap of the camshaft on the drivers side. The one the cam sensor bolts into? Well guess what? The little metal piece that goes on the end of the camshaft that the cam sensor reads was not on the camshaft. Like no bolt and no piece existed inside that housing. Who the hell would have ever expected that? Its like the junkyard took that piece for some god forsakenly unknown reason and covered it back up with that cap. Im assuming now that the worst I could have done was maybe fry a coil pack since there was no way that the car would have ever sparked without that piece in there therefore not ruining my ecu or the crank position sensor. I have taken the one off of my lancer and put it on there and am now waiting for the silicone seal to dry some before I try starting it. Im pretty sure though that everything will probably work out now though. Im sure im going to have some compression issues though. Thank you senate for all your advice and if you have any more to give, Im more than happy to hear it. Wish me luck.

senate6268 · Jun 20, 2009, 09:50 PM

That's crazy that the sensing piece was missing. Here are some diagrams that may help with that.

imalancerman · Jun 20, 2009, 11:52 PM

I know. WTF right? The craziest part about it was that the original seal hadnt even been broken. Like the sensing piece was taken out and the cap was sealed back on. Lol. Anyways, the ecu is fried. I got it to start and its running on two cylinders. Both coils are good. The dead cylinders are two and three right now. But on the plus side it did start. Im going to get a pretty decent deal on an ecu here monday and get it all taken care of. But ya, thanks again senate for your help. Oh Btw, its ticking hella loudly. My timing is dead on though. I heard somewhere that the mirage cam was advanced six degrees? I have an adjustable cam gear and i can retard the timing if need be. Just curious. The only other thing I can think of is since I port matched my head, I soaked it down with carb cleaner and there wasnt a lick of oil on anything. When I added oil to my engine, I did so with the valve cover off and tried to make sure I soaked everything as thoroughly as possible then put the cover on. Maybe itll just take some time for the oil to work its way into the lifters or something? Any other suggestions? Thank you again.

senate6268 · Jun 21, 2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imalancerman

I know. WTF right? The craziest part about it was that the original seal hadnt even been broken. Like the sensing piece was taken out and the cap was sealed back on. Lol. Anyways, the ecu is fried. I got it to start and its running on two cylinders. Both coils are good. The dead cylinders are two and three right now. But on the plus side it did start. Im going to get a pretty decent deal on an ecu here monday and get it all taken care of. But ya, thanks again senate for your help. Oh Btw, its ticking hella loudly. My timing is dead on though. I heard somewhere that the mirage cam was advanced six degrees? I have an adjustable cam gear and i can retard the timing if need be. Just curious. The only other thing I can think of is since I port matched my head, I soaked it down with carb cleaner and there wasnt a lick of oil on anything. When I added oil to my engine, I did so with the valve cover off and tried to make sure I soaked everything as thoroughly as possible then put the cover on. Maybe itll just take some time for the oil to work its way into the lifters or something? Any other suggestions? Thank you again.

How are you certain that the ECU is fried? Also, did you check the coils by swapping them with each other and still getting fail in cylinders 2 and 3? Can you pull the ROM using EcuFlash?

When breaking in an engine after rebuild you only want to run the oil for about 300-500 miles as it will be soaking up contaminants from the assembly. Also, don't use synthetic for the first 5,000 miles.

As for the ticking, that should go away with time. How many miles were on the Mirage head? The lifters may need a cleaning. Also, I've never heard that about the Mirage cam. I was under the impression it was drop in.

imalancerman · Jun 21, 2009, 12:49 PM

Attn: All Lancer Owners!!!
Coil Pack not firing

These are the two threads Im relying on for info. Ya I swapped the coil packs back and forth and it was always the 2-3 cylinder coil that wasnt firing. I could unplug the 2-3 coil pack and it wouldnt change the way the engine was running on either coil when they were in the 2-3 position. Thanks for the 500 mile info. I kinda figured it would be a good practice but wasnt sure. I never run synthetic. I Just run castrol 5-30 and a tiny itsy bit of lucas in it. Im not really sure about how many miles were on the mirage head. I wont know how good it is till I can get this problem fixed. Oh and as far as the mirage cam, the IGNITION timing on a mirage is advanced 6 degrees I read, not the actual timing. My bad on the misinformation. The mirage head was soaked thoroughly with carb cleaner after I port matched it. The head was CLEAN as a whistle. I just figured it would take some time for the oil to really penetrate up into the lifters. As far as the rom goes, ill try to pull it later this afternoon. Will that tell me something or do you want me to post it up here for you? Thanks.

senate6268 · Jun 21, 2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imalancerman

Attn: All Lancer Owners!!!
Coil Pack not firing

These are the two threads Im relying on for info. Ya I swapped the coil packs back and forth and it was always the 2-3 cylinder coil that wasnt firing. I could unplug the 2-3 coil pack and it wouldnt change the way the engine was running on either coil when they were in the 2-3 position. Thanks for the 500 mile info. I kinda figured it would be a good practice but wasnt sure. I never run synthetic. I Just run castrol 5-30 and a tiny itsy bit of lucas in it. Im not really sure about how many miles were on the mirage head. I wont know how good it is till I can get this problem fixed. Oh and as far as the mirage cam, the IGNITION timing on a mirage is advanced 6 degrees I read, not the actual timing. My bad on the misinformation. The mirage head was soaked thoroughly with carb cleaner after I port matched it. The head was CLEAN as a whistle. I just figured it would take some time for the oil to really penetrate up into the lifters. As far as the rom goes, ill try to pull it later this afternoon. Will that tell me something or do you want me to post it up here for you? Thanks.

I guess it stands to reason that your ECU is probably fried after the harness connector mixup. Oil should make it up to the lifters in the head shortly after warm-up. But if the lifters are dirty from the head having some miles on it then it would cause them to tick.

imalancerman · Jun 21, 2009, 09:20 PM

K thank you senate. Ill post updates after I get a new ecu. Thanks.

Jehuty · Jun 23, 2009, 09:56 AM

So what is the major process with the G93 head? Is it worth it to swap or is that what we're trying to figure out here. Also, how much did you guys pay for your P&P?

I'm just trying to figure it out, because I know that the hydraulic and manual lifters may make a difference.

senate6268 · Jun 23, 2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jehuty

So what is the major process with the G93 head? Is it worth it to swap or is that what we're trying to figure out here. Also, how much did you guys pay for your P&P?

I'm just trying to figure it out, because I know that the hydraulic and manual lifters may make a difference.

The cylinder head itself for the ('98 and up) 4G93 and 4G94 is indentical. Same Mitsu part # identical. The difference is in the cam sensor. So to say "is it worth it to swap", the answer is no. It is the same head. Now you might be able to source a 4G93 head cheaper than a 4G94 head. That's about the only benefit. That, and you'd be able to send that head out for porting, or perform the porting yourself.

I did my own port job on my head, as did imalancerman. After reading about how one of RRM's heads was overworked with the port job and cracked, I'd rather stay clear. I performed only a little porting and focused more on smoothing the transition from the intake manifold to the head and from the head to the turbo manifold.