Trans swap?

NERO_NOVA · Oct 7, 2009, 04:10 AM

Will it work if i have the TC-SST? also ive never read up on autos and never had one... does the tranny have its own ECU and if so would that be the only extra thing I would need for the swap?
Would this work without have a driveshaft?

(Future plans do include AWD w/Ralliart rear end and Turbocharger for anyone wondering)

Also what are the weights of the CVT and TC-SST?

kalpakiotis · Oct 7, 2009, 05:40 AM

So you want to pretty much put a ralliart into ur car? I would say mechanically itll work, but electronically u might have problems. I'm pretty sure that the Engine ECU and the Tranny ECU are synced together. Not sure if there are any other modules that need to communicate to the two in order for it to work. Personally, I don't think its worth the effort, better off trading in for the ralliart. Especially since you can only get it as an automatic.

Stick to Manual...way more fun

JHizzle · Oct 7, 2009, 11:57 AM

lol dude your project consists of id say about 15,000$+ so basically your spending the cost of another car just to have turbo and AWD. if you have a lancer you dont have the SST, you would need the ecu redone, find a AWD system thats not damaged, find a turbo (might as well do a swap) and so much more its ridiculous in the long run its totally not worth another car..save your money and get a ralliart in the long run you'll save thousands.. you would have a reliable new car with a warranty instead of an unreliable car with no warranty.

and the SST is a lot diff than the CVT in short the CVT has no gears..its just a belt that stretches it just simulates gears, which is why you never hear it shift when in D mode. the SST is actually gears and is a hell of a lot stronger than the CVT..totally different machines.

08GTSLancerBlue · Oct 7, 2009, 05:20 PM

All I can say is i want to see pics and sales receipts for this project LOL.....

NERO_NOVA · Oct 7, 2009, 05:30 PM

well i got the car under the $-4-clunkers program. so I couldnt get the RA at the time due to mpg.
I was hoping to turbo the car anyway. and I know the CVT sucks and I want an car that is streetable with 400hp AWD. I want to stick with the 2.4 L and I want the twin clutch auto and REAL GEARS!
I know my best bet is to find a wrecked ra. and thats what i hope to do. money isnt a major concern. Its better to have a wicked GTS (if thats what you would call it then) than to trade it in and increase my note and insurance.

Just an idea thats flying around in my mind

ambystom01 · Oct 7, 2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NERO_NOVA

Will it work if i have the TC-SST? also ive never read up on autos and never had one... does the tranny have its own ECU and if so would that be the only extra thing I would need for the swap?
Would this work without have a driveshaft?

(Future plans do include AWD w/Ralliart rear end and Turbocharger for anyone wondering)

Also what are the weights of the CVT and TC-SST?

? Currently, assuming your profile is right, you don't have the TC-SST, you have either the CVT or the 5-speed manual. I suspect you would need quite a bit for the swap, enough that it would be far cheaper to just buy the Ralliart. If your goal is to basically make your GTS into a Ralliart, it's way better to just buy a Ralliart, nobody can build a car like the manufacturer and even if you use all OEM parts, it won't drive or feel like OEM.

ambystom01 · Oct 7, 2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NERO_NOVA

well i got the car under the $-4-clunkers program. so I couldnt get the RA at the time due to mpg.
I was hoping to turbo the car anyway. and I know the CVT sucks and I want an car that is streetable with 400hp AWD. I want to stick with the 2.4 L and I want the twin clutch auto and REAL GEARS!
I know my best bet is to find a wrecked ra. and thats what i hope to do. money isnt a major concern. Its better to have a wicked GTS (if thats what you would call it then) than to trade it in and increase my note and insurance.

Just an idea thats flying around in my mind

Have you ever driven a 400 HP AWD car? Have you ever been in a true 400 HP AWD car? People seem to make up these arbitrary power goals without ever experiencing them first. 400 WHP (I'm going to assume you mean WHP, not crank HP) is a lot of power and will take a lot of mods to get, and it's more power than the TC-SST can currently handle. Hell, 400 crank HP is more than the TC-SST can supposedly handle (I suspect you didn't know that piece of information). To get there, you would need a larger turbo and probably meth injection. This means more lag, and a higher chance of blowing something up. Of course you need to mod the drivetrain so it can handle the power meaning more cost and more noise.
Unless you want to piss all the money down the drain in the event of an accident, you have to tell your insurance company that will undoubtedly increase your premium anyways.

jer301 · Oct 7, 2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NERO_NOVA

well i got the car under the $-4-clunkers program. so I couldnt get the RA at the time due to mpg.
I was hoping to turbo the car anyway. and I know the CVT sucks and I want an car that is streetable with 400hp AWD. I want to stick with the 2.4 L and I want the twin clutch auto and REAL GEARS!
I know my best bet is to find a wrecked ra. and thats what i hope to do. money isnt a major concern. Its better to have a wicked GTS (if thats what you would call it then) than to trade it in and increase my note and insurance.

Just an idea thats flying around in my mind

400HP In My Opinion is very close to the edge for the twin clutch SST is probably designed for. The EVO X pushes about 290hp through that tranny. When mitsu designed or had a 3rd party design the SST tranny i'm sure a standard engineering safety factor of 1.5+ (about 400+hp) was applied. That doesn't mean it is not designed for more than 435hp, just not sure how long it can handle that kind of power increase even at about 400hp. The last time I saw this done was on a toyota celica GTS. He added turbo and nitrous to get to about 400hp and sheared his final drive (when he wasn't running the nitrous ~250+hp) twice.

If you keep the 2.4L, are you goin to lower the compression ratio for the turbo? I autox with alot of miata drivers and when some have added turbos they usually replace the 1997+ cylinder head with a 1991 thru 1996 cylinder head to lower the compression ratio of the motor. I know there are some aftermarket turbo kits for the 2.4, i'm just not sure the engine is getting all the hp it can out of them. Also not sure what is being done to minimize autoignition.

I won't say you can't do it b/c with enough money you can do anything you want. Just some things I think you should think about. If you go thru with it good luck.

NERO_NOVA · Oct 8, 2009, 01:43 AM

I do mean bhp. And if there arent enough upgrades for the trans to handle the power by the time (if ever) i do reach my goal ill spend my billions on getting a 5-speed in there

lmao. i know hks is trying to figure out how to beef up the sst. and i have seen plenty of articles about 350+hp 4g63s. I do know 50-100k will be dropped into a build like this but its what i like. and as for the drivetrain minus the trans the FQ400 handles 401 hp just fine >.o.
I know it wont be like OEM and dont expect it to be.
and yes i would be lowering my compression to run more boost. 4 cyl and autos arent my strong point. both are new to me. i do read a quite few "tuner" mags but in no way am i saying im even barely knowledgeable about the subject. Im used to slamming gears and pretty decent bolt on hp coming from a v8.
I do appreciate the help and advice as well as knowledge you are both giving me though

kalpakiotis · Oct 8, 2009, 05:26 AM

If you are seriously considering this, you should look into getting a front clip from Japan. They salvage perfectly good cars from there all the time. With a front clip you would have all the necessary pieces from an RA or EVO depending on which you decide to get the parts from. the other nice thing about this, is that since the body is the same for all 3 versions, minus the extra welds in the EVO, you would pretty much be stripping every major component from your car and replacing it with the donor materials. I was considering doing an EVO swap into my GTS after the warranty, and engine pretty much gives up, whenever that happens to be. Part of that I am also planning on converting to right side drive.

As for the TC-SST, I agree with jer301 on that one. Since the EVO is using the same tranny, and the FQ-400 in the UK is pushing 400 crank, I would say that the tranny is good to ~450. Besides, how often are you actually gonna get your engine to that much power, unless you are racing it, i doubt u ever get to 75% pk power as a dd.

EngRWW33 · Oct 8, 2009, 05:43 AM

whp is not the concern with the TC-SST transmission. Torque is the killer. For more information about this transmission there is a section dedicated to it under the evo x drivetrain... You will learn a lot about hte transmission and the work that is being done to it.

ambystom01 · Oct 8, 2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NERO_NOVA

I do mean bhp. And if there arent enough upgrades for the trans to handle the power by the time (if ever) i do reach my goal ill spend my billions on getting a 5-speed in there

lmao. i know hks is trying to figure out how to beef up the sst. and i have seen plenty of articles about 350+hp 4g63s. I do know 50-100k will be dropped into a build like this but its what i like. and as for the drivetrain minus the trans the FQ400 handles 401 hp just fine >.o.
I know it wont be like OEM and dont expect it to be.
and yes i would be lowering my compression to run more boost. 4 cyl and autos arent my strong point. both are new to me. i do read a quite few "tuner" mags but in no way am i saying im even barely knowledgeable about the subject. Im used to slamming gears and pretty decent bolt on hp coming from a v8.
I do appreciate the help and advice as well as knowledge you are both giving me though

Those are 4G63s, not 4B11Ts with the TC-SST. Look in the Ralliart forum, there are people who with relatively few mods already reported clutch slippage on the dyno (requiring that power be limited). I really do not understand why you would want to dump 50000-100000$ into your Lancer to only end up with a 400 HP car. I'm sorry but if someone I knew told me they did that, I would die of laughter and exhaustion because I would spend every waking moment calling them the biggest idiot in the world. For 50000$ you can buy a stock 5-speed Evo and mod the crap out of it.
The FQ-400 is a professionally built car that costs a reported 70000$+. It also uses the 5-speed transmission, not the TC-SST. It has a lot of other mods as well.
You freely admit that you don't know much on the subject. You have a lot of reading and research ahead because at the moment, it seems like your only goal is to piss your money away on a silly and useless project.

ambystom01 · Oct 8, 2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalpakiotis

If you are seriously considering this, you should look into getting a front clip from Japan. They salvage perfectly good cars from there all the time. With a front clip you would have all the necessary pieces from an RA or EVO depending on which you decide to get the parts from. the other nice thing about this, is that since the body is the same for all 3 versions, minus the extra welds in the EVO, you would pretty much be stripping every major component from your car and replacing it with the donor materials. I was considering doing an EVO swap into my GTS after the warranty, and engine pretty much gives up, whenever that happens to be. Part of that I am also planning on converting to right side drive.

As for the TC-SST, I agree with jer301 on that one. Since the EVO is using the same tranny, and the FQ-400 in the UK is pushing 400 crank, I would say that the tranny is good to ~450. Besides, how often are you actually gonna get your engine to that much power, unless you are racing it, i doubt u ever get to 75% pk power as a dd.

The FQ-400 uses the 5-speed transmission which is a pretty damning indication of how much the manufacturer trusts the TC-SST. Mitsubishi pushes it heavily yet it's lacking in their most powerful model, hmmm....
From what I can tell, the Evo has a pretty dramatically different body. It can fit far wider tires than the Ralliart or the GTS indicating wider fenders. How is he going to replace all four fenders?
Please don't spread false information, it leads to people following that information and ending up in bad situations.

jer301 · Oct 8, 2009, 10:39 AM

The EVO has the following dims:

Wheel Base: 104.3"
Track Width: 60.8"

The RA and Lancer dims:

Wheel Base: 103.7"
Track Width: 60.2"

The EVO drivetrain, suspension, won't fit w/o some serious body work and machining. $$$$$$$$

IMO:

Want an EVO. Buy an EVO.
Want a RA. Buy a RA.

Still if you want to do this, there is alot to consider.

kalpakiotis · Oct 8, 2009, 05:49 PM

From what I have read, the unibody is the same. If you have the same unibody, then u should be able to mix and match parts. How much you would need to mix and match all depends...thats y i said u need a donor car. If anyone ends up in a bad situation its their OWN fault. You should always research any project you are about to undertake.

Also, last i read, the FQ400 is modified in the UK for the UK...to me this means it is not a part of the Corporate Mitsubishi Lineup. Besides, the FQ-400 to me seems like a quick and dirty tune to get more money. Pretty much bigger turbo, bigger intercooler, bigger exaust system and high-flow fuel injectors with a tune. Somehow that doesnt seem enough to me to bring the price from 32k to 79k. There are evos out there pushin 1100whp. I'd love to know how much they put into their cars to compare to the FQ-400.