Mitsu in 2016

BerserkerX · Jul 8, 2009, 11:16 PM

So I know that we are all going to die on 12-21-12 because the mayans said so.

But okay in 2016 the requirements for fuel economy jump to 35 mpg. I know that the evo doesn't even come close.

But from what I understand is that not all of the cars need to reach 35 mpg's. What needs to happen is its an average on your cars. So lets say that the evo by then gets 25 mpg on the highway. They need to spread that 11 mpg deficit across the rest of their cars in order to keep the car coming over. Does that scare anyone else?

I mean will they drop out of the performance market entirely? Will everyone do that? I mean I am not much for this total economical kick and taking all of our performance away. But what can Mitsu do? Maybe they can do what Audi and VW are doing and go direct injection on everything. That will increase the MPG a lot. Then they should bring over a diesel to offset some of the deficit. I personally being a diesel fan would prefer that over a hybrid. I know they did alright with the 4D engines.

There is much better tech such as a common rail now. I am just curious how other people feel about mostly on mitsus future in 2016 but also performance market in general.

EvoOtto · Jul 14, 2009, 10:51 AM

How will the IMEV effect the average? It doesn't even use gas to run?? Will the government take electric cars into consideration when calculating average mileage?

noodles2076 · Jul 14, 2009, 11:02 AM

i dont think so cause they have infinite MPG so it would kinda throw off the numbers a bit. they might have some formula for them though

mmartahus · Jul 14, 2009, 11:40 AM

so what does this mean for the resale value of our evos in 2016, will they become worthless because who would want one when they can get the same performance out of an evo 12 or something and it gets 25+mpg, or will there be no performance category left and our old evos will become highly sought after cars that are part of a dying bread

WolvieDC · Jul 14, 2009, 11:41 AM

[quote=BerserkerX;7260043] So lets say that the evo by then gets 25 mpg on the highway. quote]

Mine already does :-)

WolvieDC · Jul 14, 2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmartahus

so what does this mean for the resale value of our evos in 2016, will they become worthless because who would want one when they can get the same performance out of an evo 12 or something and it gets 25+mpg, or will there be no performance category left and our old evos will become highly sought after cars that are part of a dying bread

Basicly the fleet average has to be 35... there has been a loophole for trucks and SUVs which helped enable the kinda big almost 3 to make fleets of gas guzzlers,

there will still be a performance category they will have to create more fuel effiecent base lancers to offset the EVo and they will most likely have to produce fewer evos, or there could be a tax levied which would be passed onto the consumer,

Subaru will be in particular trouble because unlike mitsu ALL of their vehicles are AWD=generally heavier and less fuel efficent,

whats even funnier is on the note of Hybrids... The amount of fuel it takes to make and drive a prius over its lifetime is greater than that of a merc s class, reported in a top gear episode.

WheelGap · Jul 14, 2009, 11:52 AM

Unless they change how CAFE works, then Mitsu can keep on making gas guzzling Evos and just tack on the fine they get charged to the price of the vehicle. If the Evo comes up 10MPG short, then it's 10 x 10 x 5.50 = $550 they'd have to add onto the price of the Evo to pay for the CAFE fine. But that's only if Mitsubishi can't meet the fleet average, if they meet it, as I understand it the stinkers are forgiven.

From nhtsa.dot.gov:

What is the penalty for not meeting CAFE requirements for any given model year (MY)?

The penalty for failing to meet CAFE standards recently increased from $5.00 to $5.50 per tenth of a mile per gallon for each tenth under the target value times the total volume of those vehicles manufactured for a given model year.

Since 1983, manufacturers have paid more than $500 million in civil penalties. Most European manufacturers regularly pay CAFE civil penalties ranging from less than $1 million to more than $20 million annually. Asian and domestic manufacturers have never paid a civil penalty.

For MY 2002, five passenger car fleets including BMW, DaimlerChrysler import, Fiat, Lotus, and Porsche are projected to fail to meet 27.5 mpg passenger car CAFE standard. In addition, two light truck fleets including BMW and Volkswagen will likely fail to meet the light truck CAFE standard of 20.7 mpg. Final Reports for MY 2002 provided by the EPA to NHTSA in mid-calendar year of 2003 may adjust these projections favorably.

jazket · Jul 14, 2009, 01:14 PM

There's a crap load of cars that won't make it till 2016

on the other hand Mitsu is working on the Concept RA with a new diesel engine that's going to push 260 horses and above 300 lbs of torque; I call that a good sign for 2016

assuming we all don't get flushed by Earth in December 21'st 2012 (two days before my birthday... call that an early Bday present...

)

new041123 · Jul 15, 2009, 01:00 AM

Let's wait 7 years and see what's gonna happen.

"assuming we all don't get flushed by Earth in December 21'st 2012 (two days before my birthday... call that an early Bday present... "

Man, 122112 or whatever is a joke. Can't believe people really believe stuff like that.
People said world WAS gonna end on 1992, 1995, 1999, 2000 etc.

BerserkerX · Jul 15, 2009, 04:34 AM

Ha ha it is a big joke remember Y2k. as far as I remember from a commercial that meant Yes 2 Kia. lmao. But Mitsu is bringing over a diesel??!!! I really think that would be awesome if they did bring it over. Looking at the TDI from Audi and VW it outperforms the 2.5 in economy and performance from the factory. Same with the 340D from BMW.

I really think that diesels are pretty amazing. I mean damn good performance and good economy too. I mean they most likely wont run you an 8 sec quarter but they are not bad on performance.

jwoods986 · Jul 15, 2009, 06:50 AM

By 2016 (2017 actually) we are guaranteed to have a different president, hopefully one that will overturn this BS.

jwoods986 · Jul 15, 2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelGap

Unless they change how CAFE works, then Mitsu can keep on making gas guzzling Evos and just tack on the fine they get charged to the price of the vehicle. If the Evo comes up 10MPG short, then it's 10 x 10 x 5.50 = $550 they'd have to add onto the price of the Evo to pay for the CAFE fine. But that's only if Mitsubishi can't meet the fleet average, if they meet it, as I understand it the stinkers are forgiven.

From nhtsa.dot.gov:

What is the penalty for not meeting CAFE requirements for any given model year (MY)?

The penalty for failing to meet CAFE standards recently increased from $5.00 to $5.50 per tenth of a mile per gallon for each tenth under the target value times the total volume of those vehicles manufactured for a given model year.

Since 1983, manufacturers have paid more than $500 million in civil penalties. Most European manufacturers regularly pay CAFE civil penalties ranging from less than $1 million to more than $20 million annually. Asian and domestic manufacturers have never paid a civil penalty.

For MY 2002, five passenger car fleets including BMW, DaimlerChrysler import, Fiat, Lotus, and Porsche are projected to fail to meet 27.5 mpg passenger car CAFE standard. In addition, two light truck fleets including BMW and Volkswagen will likely fail to meet the light truck CAFE standard of 20.7 mpg. Final Reports for MY 2002 provided by the EPA to NHTSA in mid-calendar year of 2003 may adjust these projections favorably.

Ah ha, great info! This is something I've wondered about since the announcement of the new CAFE standard. So companies can still make cars that don't meet CAFE and just pay a fine? Great! I'm certainly willing to pay an extra $550 on a car to keep the performance (and not give in to these bastards). They think everyone should just drive a Prius and be happy.

And if they're going to be this much of a pain with cars, I hope that the loop hole for trucks/SUVs is going to be closed then. No reason to be tougher and tougher on cars, while trucks get a free ride.

BerserkerX · Jul 15, 2009, 09:34 PM

I agree that they need to get a little strict on trucks if they are going to be stringent on the cars. I would definitely pay this fine in order to keep my performance. I say hell no to driving a prius. They are great for those people who want to have no performance and want to have a very annoying sounding car. The stupid things don't even get the claimed mileage or even come close if you step on the gas at all.

But here is my opinion what the car companies need to do is bring out a few diesels that get some high mileage like the German autos are doing. I would love to own a 3 series diesel or a TDI. But then in order to meet the standards for the gasoline engines they need to add direct injection so that they can improve the mileage greatly. With direct injection you can add a lot of performance along with the economy. Like Audi with the 2.0t running a 10.5 compression.

Who here thinks it was ridiculous to bail out Government Motors and Communism/Dodge?

boost-junky · Jul 16, 2009, 05:13 AM

They could send us the Colt or the Ek. I'm sure that would help out.

WolvieDC · Jul 16, 2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerserkerX

Who here thinks it was ridiculous to bail out Government Motors and Communism/Dodge?

that's a loaded question that would require an envolved and serious thread in order to have a meaningful discussion, but the question itself is biased because on can already tell what your opinion is.

There has been an attempt in the past to provide desiel cars in the us. However untill relatively recently the technology was more along with what people assosiate with noisy dirty trucks so it didn't take off in the us market.

Nevertheless, BMW and vw are advertising their disel tech cars in the us.