dek0026

You're what's wrong with forums. You speak about a lot of things of which you have little to no experience. You must be proud of your designation as a "guru."

Now as far as the manual transmission vs. SST debate goes, I've only have driven an SST on the street. From what little I've experienced with the SST, I prefer a regular GSR trans for track, autox and hard parking. My reason for that is because I wasn't thrilled with how the SST functioned and there seems to be a lot of modifications that need to be done to make it fully track worthy once the driver can get what they need out of the car and also the high price for repairing and replacing makes it less attractive.

I'd be interested to hear what people with lots of experience have to say about the SST. Jeremy R who works for SSP grenaded his SST and he also drives a GTR. Too bad he doesn't post here often....

Iowa999

iTrader: (1)

Maybe he has found that sharing what he knows isn't worth the hassle.

edit: Or maybe he's sick of people saying that he "grenaded" his SST when he didn't (see below).

mlambert890

This discussion becomes religion immediately on any forum and hence useless.

Only real fact is that ANY dual clutch trans needs modding for the track. GTR guys go aftermarket too for coolers etc. weird that the GTR gets such insane orgasmic love (incl from GSR guys/MR haters) yet is basically a "mega MR"

So dual clutch trannies need some modding for heavy track use (no matter what car it is) and shift a lot faster.

Often, manual trannies need modding too (heavy duty clutch, short throw, etc)

The rest is completely subjective (feel, anaolgies to women, validations of manhood) and irrelevant

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

Great post and spot on.

Never understood why everybody thinks the SST is a bad boy when everybody drools over the GTR's box and thinks it's Jesus risen again.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

In racing the maintanenc - simpleness and cost can make a whole world turn around you.

The Evo sst is just simply not strong - cheap and simple.enough to be a real essence in a hard core race car. When 10 or more racing team will use them for racing then the argument can be valid. But you want to be a guinny pig? Lol
But as it stands today all big racing teams using mt or after market transmission. The evo sst is not there.
So my answer for this guy who asked a question which one is for a dedicated race car, that is why i think pointed out the mt vs the sst.
simply is that.

Why other s pointing different way, that is they deal.
i drove both tuned up on track. That is why i say what i say.

People.pick or listen who they want to beilive. It is they money and race

Rob

jazket

iTrader: (1)

Applause

Exyia

iTrader: (6)

it ended up being his t-case, NOT his SST. I don't know how, but his SST survived that incident...seriously amazing

http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/sho...t=52409&page=5

he probably doesn't post here anymore because reading some of the posts/threads on this forum makes my head hurt. I spend more time on evoxforums because the general IQ just seems higher there. this thread is just another example

from the OPI'm not even going to try and reason with your ignorance about the SST being "weak". you didn't even read the OP's post.

there hasn't been a single SST reported that physically BROKE when properly fully built, just TCU limitations. (Kozmic27 is planning on running either his or Jeremy's MR to the literal physical breaking point at a TX Mile event).

considering that and the fact that the OP is just going to run bolt-ons? way to add ignorance to what could have been a good thread discussion

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

This guy isn't racing, he is doing track events. This guy isn't racing in championships or anything like that, nor is he a "big race team", nor is it a "hard core race car":


Robevo, this is the same thing with you over a over again, you do know there is a whole world in-between street cars and hard core racing right?

The SST has been run in 24hr events, normal track events (like the OP is going to do) and when tuned and modded correctly, the SST works just dandy and is proven. It can allow people to concentrate on learning lines and going faster without having to deal with shifting, or they can shift themselves after learning the lines, track and going faster. It's arguably the best choice for normal casual track events.

The pro racing world is totally different, seperate and belongs there.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

thanks for the quote. The bottom of you comment we are 100% agree, but that wasnt a original question here which i replied...

as i said i thought he was talking about dedicated race car when i suggested the MT over the SST... and then when he clarified it according you quote too i said this


on the subject:

That 24 hour race EVo X from england was to advertise the SST transmisson basically. with very moderate engine etc and MUCH lighter car.

But also there is one other guy who run the SSt, at least once i dont know whats happening since:
He was running the Getrag and some other company MODIFIED SST in the race .
here is his view :

" Thanks guys...I’m
just glad I can finally contribute after all this time being here. This forum is really a great source of information, from real-life experience...even though it can sometime get a little hot in here ; )

I'm going to finally come out of my comfort zone, and offer my 2cents about the whole SST issue in discussion here.

When I fell in love with the X, my single most difficult decision was whether to go with the GSR or the MR. Living around race cars all my life, I had adopted a certain bi-polar personality.

On the track, I enjoy stripped-down sports cars, with conventional manual transmissions, that are relatively easy and cheap to maintain. These cars are quick, reliable and satisfyingly efficient.

On the road however, I want something a little more friendly, but that can still quench my thirst for performance. Twin-clutch sports cars today are incredibly performing and terrifyingly quick.

So when choosing your car, I believe it’s really down to the following criteria:
- What is your budget (purchase and maintenance)?
- What are you going to use the car for (daily driver, track…)?
- How much performance do you expect to get out of it?

Its true, the twin-clutch technology is still at its embryonic stage, and needs to prove its effectiveness and reliability on the longer term, especially on highly-tuned sports cars.

But to say that cars with manual transmission are the fastest and most suited to performance racing, is not the complete truth. I’m sure that in the very near future, there will be more than one car with a twin-clutch transmission housed in the racing pits next door to us ; )

Personally, I couldn’t make my mind up about any of them, so I’ve decided to go with the Evo X RS. It’s cheap, stripped down and comes with no frills, allowing me to create a car the way I like it, with no compromise on how much or little performance I want out of it. However, it’s rough, noisy and manual…just what I need to make sure the missus doesn’t even think about driving it ; )"
source:
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/sho...t=14788&page=4

Remember he has a fully rebuild and upgraded SST from getrag and one other company.(sponsorship from them)
So it is dead on what i said, if you have a tight budget or you are not a fully backed up team , the SST is not your choice ideally.
And the moral of the story as a racer, he bought the most basic EVOX the RS after he drove the SST EVO X car around in racing. GO figure...

so you just have to leave for a split second your hate behind, and you will see where i coming from when someone ask for a dedicated race build. Which is in my mind (maybe i am wrong ) but is a race car not an occasional track car...


I think i said enough and thanks for the quote again

Cheers Rob

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

Nobody asked for that, at all. Again, he said *track* car not *race* car.

Huge difference. Two different worlds.

Btw, I was NOT referencing the 24hr race Evo from England but a couple here in the states that had standard issue SST OEM boxes from Mitsu in the their cars they bought straight from a dealer.

Again, please set aside your "because race car" mentality and realize there is a world that exists between street cars and race cars.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

^^^ this is a quote from the guy who actually build the SST for him and basically a car .

"Dear all,

I am one of the guys, who applicated the SST transmission for mass production and also joined the race team in order to "make the SST running" in a racecar.

First of all, the team is made up of engineers, who are motor sports enthusiastic and mainly already involved in the SST development. With the help of Mitsubishi Japan and a chummy other race team, we build up the vehicle. The purpose of it was to show the potential of the EVO in combination with the SST gearbox. And finally we finished on position 32 out of 180 vehicles.


Let me give some technical details, as far as I can:

The vehicle has been build up from the naked body. Only necessary parts have been assembled. Additional parts for racing like the cell, cooler, pumps, tank... are also equipped. The vehicle build up photo documentation can be seen on our website.

The engine, believe it or not, is nearly mass production like. It has about 300hp with maximum turbo pressure of 1,4 bar and air-restrictor. We made some tests with up to 400hp (app. 500Nm) and the transmission was running quite fine. The only reason for using the 300hp version was, that there was simply no time to create a durable engine SW with more power. Our highest target was up from the beginning of that project, to build up a vehicle, which is capably to survive the 24h race. And with more than 300hp, we had no experiences with on the dynometer for longer than a few hours.

The transmission itself (tatata) is also nearly like mass production. The only hardware change is a little bit shorter 6th gear to increase top speed. Externally equipped is one additional cooler for the trans. With that, the oil temperature during the race never exceeded 102°, so fare away from failing.
By the way: other systems like AYC have had external coolers also.

From software point of view, we made some changes like different shift points, modified interaction with ABS/ESP/AYC and these things. These changes were leading to the fact, that all the drivers drove in auto mode during the race. No one was shifting manually. This is good for a relaxing drive and also good to keep the temperature stable.

If there are more question, please feel free to ask. I hope, I am able to answer them.

By the way: the 7speed DCT from the M3 cannot be used for that vehicle, even if it is from the same company. The engine orientation is different (crossway vs. lengthwise) and the interaction with other modules like engine, ABS, AYC... is completely different in the Evo than in M3.

Greetings!

TICer"

i thought you might interested.
FYI he actually stated he wants to build a DEDICATED race car for track events, then he later added on 5-6 times of the year... which is basicaly a same number what Faust or Ken block runs in Rally America championships... You should think about that.

here is his original post if you missed that:

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

but its all good, he decided to get an MR a loong time now... LOL like the first or second page page hahahaha.
i am out now. was nice chatting with you.

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

buh bye.

Iowa999

iTrader: (1)

You know what would be rather funny? If the "it will be a dedicated track car" from the very first post was a typo and he meant to say "it will not be a dedicated track car." I would not be surprised if that were the case given what he wrote afterwards. I completely missed that sentence and inferred that this was a DD that would go to the track a few times a year.