Moving from 500 to 550 crank HP!
Dec 20, 2009, 07:38 PM
#1
Moving from 500 to 550 crank HP!
So Ive been testing some new combinations of parts on the Hiboost Evo X over the last few months and appear to be making some progress. I calibrated my last dyno numbers to read very close to the VDR (Virtual Dyno Room) numbers at the time so that future changes would be within a few percent and give relatively accurate estimates. For reference STM's Mustang Dyno reads about 30% lower than Crank HP numbers and it's considered a low reading "heart breaker dyno" very similar to Buschur's.
ETS Tubular Exhaust Manifold / UR O2 DP combo -vs- Full-Race Tubular Exhaust Manifold / ATP O2 DP with 44mm Tial combo
The major change since late summer was switching from an ETS Tubular Exhaust Manifold / UR O2 DP combo to a Full-Race Tubular Exhaust Manifold / ATP O2 DP with 44mm Tial combo. My internal WG failed on the Garrett GT3076r turbo so I decided to use the ATP external WG setup which seems to be holding boost better in the 5500-7000 rpm range as can be seen in the comparison chart and analyzing my datalogs. I can now hold 27 psi to about 7k where as before it would taper about 1 psi more in that RPM range. The only reason I decided to swap the ETS (48mm runners) for the Full-Race (42mm runners) was that I suspected a crack that turned out to just be a gasket leak from loosening bolts. Still it appears that I gained some low end torque with the switch while not loosing any top end at my current power levels. Peak numbers don't show too much difference but even with the 30 F temp correction the low - midrange gains are excellent.
All runs were done at 27 psi with the same Timing Advance and 11.5 AFR tune. There may still be some power with more tweaking but I wanted to get these numbers documented first.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 8 WHP (~10 crank HP)
Best Gains @ 6500: 25 whp (~33 crank HP)
Prototype Intake Manifold
The next comparison is the addition of a larger plenum capacity Intake Manifold design that I'm testing for a friend of mine local to me. It's still a prototype unit and I ended up doing some portwork opening the TB side to accomodate a 64mm TB upgrade and slight smoothing of casting marks in the runners. The resulting power delivery seems very impressive. Power under the curve is up across the board with slightly more power being made as RPM's increase.
All runs were done at 27 psi with the same Timing Advance and 11.5 AFR tune. The data from these runs was only 1 day apart and the temp/baro were very similar.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 31 WHP (~40 crank HP)
Increasing gains for entire rev range of 4000-7500 rpms!
Net Gains since Late Summer 09
The next graph shows Late summer setup that was dynoed at 380-385 whp with ETS manifold on the STM Mustang Dyno with the current setup which includes the last two rounds of modifications. The car now spools 20 psi by 3450 in 4th gear (vs 3600) and is making the same HP about 400 rpm's sooner than before. Power under the curve is up everywhere with the biggest gains in the 5500-7000 rpm area even when you account for a 30 F temp correction. I plan on visiting the STM dyno over the next couple weeks to validate the results and then proceed to test another Intake Manifold design that has an even larger plenum capacity and ability to bolt on a 75mm Boomba Throttle Body. I'll also test larger diameter IC piping before and after to see what effect it will have slowing down the airflow to recommended levels through the TB. After running the airflow numbers I'm excited to see the results!
Peak Gains @ 7500: 39 WHP (~51 crank HP)
Best Gains @ 6500: 46 whp (~60 crank HP)
Net Gains over Stock Evo X with Mivec tuning
The last comparison is a physically stock Evo X that made 240 whp with my Hiboost Mivec Maps and some basic fueling adustments and slightly lower than stock boost. The completely stock Evo X graph showed 210-225 whp but it was extremely erratic so I figured it would be a better comparison. You will notice that the Mivec tuned stock Evo X has an advantage below 3800 but after that it's all GT30 turbo land.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 200 WHP (~260 crank HP)
GT3076R Turbo: 425 whp (~550 crank HP)
Stock Evo X w/ Mivec: 240 whp (~312 crank HP)
Bone Stock Evo X: 210-225 whp (~273-292 crank HP)
Overall impressions are that this Evo X has totally transformed from it's original form. My biggest concern now is that without temp correction the raw whp numbers were at 440 whp which is about 572 crank HP and the fueling system is definitely approaching it's limits with 800cc injectors. Plans are to get a better pump solution in the 400 lph rating range along with 1200-1600cc injectors so that E85 can be an option for the future. Right now I have a feeling that installing Cosworth MX1 cams would likely add another 30-40 whp and push me over my fueling capacity so I need to plan carefully.
We may be considering making more of these Intake Manifolds for testing to see if there are repeatable gains and after I validate the results on STM's Mustang Dyno. PM me if you have interest and we'll consider options. If these do end up coming to market, I'm sure my friend will reveal his identity and become an official vendor. Either way the pricing will be much lower than the $1200-$1800 intake manifold options that are available to the Evo X right now!
Moderators: If this fits better in the Dyno section feel free to move it there.
ETS Tubular Exhaust Manifold / UR O2 DP combo -vs- Full-Race Tubular Exhaust Manifold / ATP O2 DP with 44mm Tial combo
The major change since late summer was switching from an ETS Tubular Exhaust Manifold / UR O2 DP combo to a Full-Race Tubular Exhaust Manifold / ATP O2 DP with 44mm Tial combo. My internal WG failed on the Garrett GT3076r turbo so I decided to use the ATP external WG setup which seems to be holding boost better in the 5500-7000 rpm range as can be seen in the comparison chart and analyzing my datalogs. I can now hold 27 psi to about 7k where as before it would taper about 1 psi more in that RPM range. The only reason I decided to swap the ETS (48mm runners) for the Full-Race (42mm runners) was that I suspected a crack that turned out to just be a gasket leak from loosening bolts. Still it appears that I gained some low end torque with the switch while not loosing any top end at my current power levels. Peak numbers don't show too much difference but even with the 30 F temp correction the low - midrange gains are excellent.
All runs were done at 27 psi with the same Timing Advance and 11.5 AFR tune. There may still be some power with more tweaking but I wanted to get these numbers documented first.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 8 WHP (~10 crank HP)
Best Gains @ 6500: 25 whp (~33 crank HP)
Prototype Intake Manifold
The next comparison is the addition of a larger plenum capacity Intake Manifold design that I'm testing for a friend of mine local to me. It's still a prototype unit and I ended up doing some portwork opening the TB side to accomodate a 64mm TB upgrade and slight smoothing of casting marks in the runners. The resulting power delivery seems very impressive. Power under the curve is up across the board with slightly more power being made as RPM's increase.
All runs were done at 27 psi with the same Timing Advance and 11.5 AFR tune. The data from these runs was only 1 day apart and the temp/baro were very similar.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 31 WHP (~40 crank HP)
Increasing gains for entire rev range of 4000-7500 rpms!
Net Gains since Late Summer 09
The next graph shows Late summer setup that was dynoed at 380-385 whp with ETS manifold on the STM Mustang Dyno with the current setup which includes the last two rounds of modifications. The car now spools 20 psi by 3450 in 4th gear (vs 3600) and is making the same HP about 400 rpm's sooner than before. Power under the curve is up everywhere with the biggest gains in the 5500-7000 rpm area even when you account for a 30 F temp correction. I plan on visiting the STM dyno over the next couple weeks to validate the results and then proceed to test another Intake Manifold design that has an even larger plenum capacity and ability to bolt on a 75mm Boomba Throttle Body. I'll also test larger diameter IC piping before and after to see what effect it will have slowing down the airflow to recommended levels through the TB. After running the airflow numbers I'm excited to see the results!
Peak Gains @ 7500: 39 WHP (~51 crank HP)
Best Gains @ 6500: 46 whp (~60 crank HP)
Net Gains over Stock Evo X with Mivec tuning
The last comparison is a physically stock Evo X that made 240 whp with my Hiboost Mivec Maps and some basic fueling adustments and slightly lower than stock boost. The completely stock Evo X graph showed 210-225 whp but it was extremely erratic so I figured it would be a better comparison. You will notice that the Mivec tuned stock Evo X has an advantage below 3800 but after that it's all GT30 turbo land.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 200 WHP (~260 crank HP)
GT3076R Turbo: 425 whp (~550 crank HP)
Stock Evo X w/ Mivec: 240 whp (~312 crank HP)
Bone Stock Evo X: 210-225 whp (~273-292 crank HP)
Overall impressions are that this Evo X has totally transformed from it's original form. My biggest concern now is that without temp correction the raw whp numbers were at 440 whp which is about 572 crank HP and the fueling system is definitely approaching it's limits with 800cc injectors. Plans are to get a better pump solution in the 400 lph rating range along with 1200-1600cc injectors so that E85 can be an option for the future. Right now I have a feeling that installing Cosworth MX1 cams would likely add another 30-40 whp and push me over my fueling capacity so I need to plan carefully.
We may be considering making more of these Intake Manifolds for testing to see if there are repeatable gains and after I validate the results on STM's Mustang Dyno. PM me if you have interest and we'll consider options. If these do end up coming to market, I'm sure my friend will reveal his identity and become an official vendor. Either way the pricing will be much lower than the $1200-$1800 intake manifold options that are available to the Evo X right now!
Moderators: If this fits better in the Dyno section feel free to move it there.
Dec 20, 2009, 07:44 PM
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So Ive been testing some new combinations of parts on the Hiboost Evo X over the last few months and appear to be making some progress. I calibrated my last dyno numbers to read very close to the VDR (Virtual Dyno Room) numbers at the time so that future changes would be within a few percent and give relatively accurate estimates. For reference STM's Mustang Dyno reads about 30% lower than Crank HP numbers and it's considered a low reading "heart breaker dyno" very similar to Buschur's.
ETS Tubular Exhaust Manifold / UR O2 DP combo -vs- Full-Race Tubular Exhaust Manifold / ATP O2 DP with 44mm Tial combo
The major change since late summer was switching from an ETS Tubular Exhaust Manifold / UR O2 DP combo to a Full-Race Tubular Exhaust Manifold / ATP O2 DP with 44mm Tial combo. My internal WG failed on the Garrett GT3076r turbo so I decided to use the ATP external WG setup which seems to be holding boost better in the 5500-7000 rpm range as can be seen in the comparison chart and analyzing my datalogs. I can now hold 27 psi to about 7k where as before it would taper about 1 psi more in that RPM range. The only reason I decided to swap the ETS (48mm runners) for the Full-Race (42mm runners) was that I suspected a crack that turned out to just be a gasket leak from loosening bolts. Still it appears that I gained some low end torque with the switch while not loosing any top end at my current power levels. Peak numbers don't show too much difference but even with the 30 F temp correction the low - midrange gains are excellent.
All runs were done at 27 psi with the same Timing Advance and 11.5 AFR tune. There may still be some power with more tweaking but I wanted to get these numbers documented first.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 8 WHP (~10 crank HP)
Best Gains @ 6500: 25 whp (~33 crank HP)
Prototype Intake Manifold
The next comparison is the addition of a larger plenum capacity Intake Manifold design that I'm testing for a friend of mine local to me. It's still a prototype unit and I ended up doing some portwork opening the TB side to accomodate a 64mm TB upgrade and slight smoothing of casting marks in the runners. The resulting power delivery seems very impressive. Power under the curve is up across the board with slightly more power being made as RPM's increase.
All runs were done at 27 psi with the same Timing Advance and 11.5 AFR tune. The data from these runs was only 1 day apart and the temp/baro were very similar.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 31 WHP (~40 crank HP)
Increasing gains for entire rev range of 4000-7500 rpms!
Net Gains since Late Summer 09
The next graph shows Late summer setup that was dynoed at 380-385 whp with ETS manifold on the STM Mustang Dyno with the current setup which includes the last two rounds of modifications. The car now spools 20 psi by 3450 in 4th gear (vs 3600) and is making the same HP about 400 rpm's sooner than before. Power under the curve is up everywhere with the biggest gains in the 5500-7000 rpm area even when you account for a 30 F temp correction. I plan on visiting the STM dyno over the next couple weeks to validate the results and then proceed to test another Intake Manifold design that has an even larger plenum capacity and ability to bolt on a 75mm Boomba Throttle Body. I'll also test larger diameter IC piping before and after to see what effect it will have slowing down the airflow to recommended levels through the TB. After running the airflow numbers I'm excited to see the results!
Peak Gains @ 7500: 39 WHP (~51 crank HP)
Best Gains @ 6500: 46 whp (~60 crank HP)
Net Gains over Stock Evo X with Mivec tuning
The last comparison is a physically stock Evo X that made 240 whp with my Hiboost Mivec Maps and some basic fueling adustments and slightly lower than stock boost. The completely stock Evo X graph showed 210-225 whp but it was extremely erratic so I figured it would be a better comparison. You will notice that the Mivec tuned stock Evo X has an advantage below 3800 but after that it's all GT30 turbo land.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 200 WHP (~260 crank HP)
GT3076R Turbo: 425 whp (~550 crank HP)
Stock Evo X w/ Mivec: 240 whp (~312 crank HP)
Bone Stock Evo X: 210-225 whp (~273-292 crank HP)
Overall impressions are that this Evo X has totally transformed from it's original form. My biggest concern now is that without temp correction the raw whp numbers were at 440 whp which is about 572 crank HP and the fueling system is definitely approaching it's limits with 800cc injectors. Plans are to get a better pump solution in the 400 lph rating range along with 1200-1600cc injectors so that E85 can be an option for the future. Right now I have a feeling that installing Cosworth MX1 cams would likely add another 30-40 whp and push me over my fueling capacity so I need to plan carefully.
We may be considering making more of these Intake Manifolds for testing to see if there are repeatable gains and after I validate the results on STM's Mustang Dyno. PM me if you have interest and we'll consider options. If these do end up coming to market, I'm sure my friend will reveal his identity and become an official vendor. Either way the pricing will be much lower than the $1200-$1800 intake manifold options that are available to the Evo X right now!
Moderators: If this fits better in the Dyno section feel free to move it there.
ETS Tubular Exhaust Manifold / UR O2 DP combo -vs- Full-Race Tubular Exhaust Manifold / ATP O2 DP with 44mm Tial combo
The major change since late summer was switching from an ETS Tubular Exhaust Manifold / UR O2 DP combo to a Full-Race Tubular Exhaust Manifold / ATP O2 DP with 44mm Tial combo. My internal WG failed on the Garrett GT3076r turbo so I decided to use the ATP external WG setup which seems to be holding boost better in the 5500-7000 rpm range as can be seen in the comparison chart and analyzing my datalogs. I can now hold 27 psi to about 7k where as before it would taper about 1 psi more in that RPM range. The only reason I decided to swap the ETS (48mm runners) for the Full-Race (42mm runners) was that I suspected a crack that turned out to just be a gasket leak from loosening bolts. Still it appears that I gained some low end torque with the switch while not loosing any top end at my current power levels. Peak numbers don't show too much difference but even with the 30 F temp correction the low - midrange gains are excellent.
All runs were done at 27 psi with the same Timing Advance and 11.5 AFR tune. There may still be some power with more tweaking but I wanted to get these numbers documented first.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 8 WHP (~10 crank HP)
Best Gains @ 6500: 25 whp (~33 crank HP)
Prototype Intake Manifold
The next comparison is the addition of a larger plenum capacity Intake Manifold design that I'm testing for a friend of mine local to me. It's still a prototype unit and I ended up doing some portwork opening the TB side to accomodate a 64mm TB upgrade and slight smoothing of casting marks in the runners. The resulting power delivery seems very impressive. Power under the curve is up across the board with slightly more power being made as RPM's increase.
All runs were done at 27 psi with the same Timing Advance and 11.5 AFR tune. The data from these runs was only 1 day apart and the temp/baro were very similar.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 31 WHP (~40 crank HP)
Increasing gains for entire rev range of 4000-7500 rpms!
Net Gains since Late Summer 09
The next graph shows Late summer setup that was dynoed at 380-385 whp with ETS manifold on the STM Mustang Dyno with the current setup which includes the last two rounds of modifications. The car now spools 20 psi by 3450 in 4th gear (vs 3600) and is making the same HP about 400 rpm's sooner than before. Power under the curve is up everywhere with the biggest gains in the 5500-7000 rpm area even when you account for a 30 F temp correction. I plan on visiting the STM dyno over the next couple weeks to validate the results and then proceed to test another Intake Manifold design that has an even larger plenum capacity and ability to bolt on a 75mm Boomba Throttle Body. I'll also test larger diameter IC piping before and after to see what effect it will have slowing down the airflow to recommended levels through the TB. After running the airflow numbers I'm excited to see the results!
Peak Gains @ 7500: 39 WHP (~51 crank HP)
Best Gains @ 6500: 46 whp (~60 crank HP)
Net Gains over Stock Evo X with Mivec tuning
The last comparison is a physically stock Evo X that made 240 whp with my Hiboost Mivec Maps and some basic fueling adustments and slightly lower than stock boost. The completely stock Evo X graph showed 210-225 whp but it was extremely erratic so I figured it would be a better comparison. You will notice that the Mivec tuned stock Evo X has an advantage below 3800 but after that it's all GT30 turbo land.
Peak Gains @ 7500: 200 WHP (~260 crank HP)
GT3076R Turbo: 425 whp (~550 crank HP)
Stock Evo X w/ Mivec: 240 whp (~312 crank HP)
Bone Stock Evo X: 210-225 whp (~273-292 crank HP)
Overall impressions are that this Evo X has totally transformed from it's original form. My biggest concern now is that without temp correction the raw whp numbers were at 440 whp which is about 572 crank HP and the fueling system is definitely approaching it's limits with 800cc injectors. Plans are to get a better pump solution in the 400 lph rating range along with 1200-1600cc injectors so that E85 can be an option for the future. Right now I have a feeling that installing Cosworth MX1 cams would likely add another 30-40 whp and push me over my fueling capacity so I need to plan carefully.
We may be considering making more of these Intake Manifolds for testing to see if there are repeatable gains and after I validate the results on STM's Mustang Dyno. PM me if you have interest and we'll consider options. If these do end up coming to market, I'm sure my friend will reveal his identity and become an official vendor. Either way the pricing will be much lower than the $1200-$1800 intake manifold options that are available to the Evo X right now!
Moderators: If this fits better in the Dyno section feel free to move it there.
Dec 20, 2009, 09:54 PM
#4
Thanks guys!
Emery: I'll be contacting you soon about setting up some dyno time when there is a milder break in the weather. I want to get a snapshot of where the car sits but considering the fueling is being pushed well into the 95% Injector duty cycle range when it's below freezing, I don't want to push my luck.
Emery: I'll be contacting you soon about setting up some dyno time when there is a milder break in the weather. I want to get a snapshot of where the car sits but considering the fueling is being pushed well into the 95% Injector duty cycle range when it's below freezing, I don't want to push my luck.
nice review , great numbers
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Dec 21, 2009, 01:57 PM
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hiboost, I know your personal quest was to make the 3076 work, but at this point, after having done all this work and buying all the parts, do you feel that it would have been easier/cheaper to have gotten a red? B/c it seems that the red guys are getting the same power level (sub out cams or meth for the IM you have).
Dec 21, 2009, 08:07 PM
#11
When I did the writeup I did mention porting the TB side to 65 mm "just in case" I wanted to upgrade to a Boomba 64mm TB in the future but I haven't upgraded it yet. After running the numbers and doing some research I found out that Corky Bell recommends staying under 300 ft/sec velocity through the TB on a turbocharged car, other parts of the Intercooler pipes can hover in the 300-450 ft/sec range though.
The stock TB (60mm) starts to exceed the 300 ft/sec velocity mark at about 400 crank HP and a Boomba TB (64mm) will likely be good until 450-500 crank HP. Since I'm already somewhat outgrowing those needs I've decided that testing the gains with a 75mm TB upgrade is well worth it since it won't hit the 300 ft/sec guidline until 650 crank HP which is about as far as I want to push this daily driver street evo. At 550 crank HP the 75mm TB will be about 250 ft/sec with room to grow so there should be sizeable gains over the stocker since it's past 400 ft/sec already and climbing!
Yep this is 93 octane Hess pump gas. Boost curve is set for 27 psi with 1-2 psi spike at most. The current timing maps actually allowed higher boost in this frigid weather but I wanted to stick with a consistant boost level for testing and not push the limits too far just yet. After switching to the ATP O2 DP with Tial wastegate the boost holds 27 psi right to 7k. I think it fades to 26 psi by 7400 and then starts to dive towards 24 psi by 8000 which must be the natural flow limits of the turbo being reached. Still as you can see from the power curves I'm quite sure that peak gains could be slightly higher at 7800-8000 rpm range but I don't like pushing the car that high too often.
hiboost, I know your personal quest was to make the 3076 work, but at this point, after having done all this work and buying all the parts, do you feel that it would have been easier/cheaper to have gotten a red? B/c it seems that the red guys are getting the same power level (sub out cams or meth for the IM you have).
The Dom 2 is really a better "Pump gas" turbo as it has a bit better response down low with slightly less top end power as a compromise. With E85 and/or Meth I think the playing field gets much narrower for all 3 turbos as you can cheat the flow limits of the turbo a bit by getting more efficient power through better timing and leaner AFR's. I've seen some mean Dom2 setups with cams come out lately tuned on E85 that are in the 550-600 crank HP range which is pretty amazing.
I think the next turbo to beat will be the CBRD BBK, and soon we will have some results on the Evo X platform.
Last edited by Hiboost; Dec 21, 2009 at 08:14 PM.
Dec 21, 2009, 10:42 PM
#12
I was checking out the Garrett site, and they have some new combos listed for the Evo X turbo:
788550-5001s: GT3071R, 0.73 A/R
788550-5002s: GT3076R, 0.94 A/R
788550-5003s: GT3071R, 0.94 A/R
788550-5004s: GT3076R, 0.73 A/R
The 3076 with the smaller A/R turbine housing should really improve spool.... not sure what it'd do to the top-end power though. Conventional wisdom is that it'll hurt top-end power, but how much is the question.
788550-5001s: GT3071R, 0.73 A/R
788550-5002s: GT3076R, 0.94 A/R
788550-5003s: GT3071R, 0.94 A/R
788550-5004s: GT3076R, 0.73 A/R
The 3076 with the smaller A/R turbine housing should really improve spool.... not sure what it'd do to the top-end power though. Conventional wisdom is that it'll hurt top-end power, but how much is the question.
Dec 21, 2009, 11:10 PM
#13
Hmmm that is interesting... I think in general the housing is slightly oversized for the wheels inside it as is, so the 3076 might be good in the lower .73 AR exhaust housing. Then again you won't find me testing it though, it might end up causing massive compressor surge at WOT if the compressor side then becomes too large relative to a quicker spooling hot side with lower flow!
I also can't imagine a 3071 in a .94 AR either, besides maybe just buying it to swap larger wheels in... but then you may as well just buy a turbo kit when you add up the costs involved.
What would be a real option is stuffing a wheel combo in there that is in between a 30 and 35r like the BBK, or just going with a latest billet design 35r wheel combo in the .94 AR housing. Now that's something I would be willing to test!
I also can't imagine a 3071 in a .94 AR either, besides maybe just buying it to swap larger wheels in... but then you may as well just buy a turbo kit when you add up the costs involved.
What would be a real option is stuffing a wheel combo in there that is in between a 30 and 35r like the BBK, or just going with a latest billet design 35r wheel combo in the .94 AR housing. Now that's something I would be willing to test!
Last edited by Hiboost; Dec 22, 2009 at 11:24 AM.
Dec 28, 2009, 03:10 PM
#14
Something to keep in mind - i believe the ATP downpipe converts your evoX turbo from a true twinscroll configuration (with dual wastegate type flowpaths) to a single wastegate twinscroll, causing some pulse energy to be lost from "mixing" as the exhaust gases are not kept completely seperate. This also has the effect of making the housing seem "larger"...
have you considered experimenting with either
1) stock internal wastegate flapper
2) welding a plate to your ATP downpipe's 44mm WG Flange, to keep the flow completely seperate all the way up to the WG valve?
have you considered experimenting with either
1) stock internal wastegate flapper
2) welding a plate to your ATP downpipe's 44mm WG Flange, to keep the flow completely seperate all the way up to the WG valve?
Dec 28, 2009, 03:51 PM
#15
the Full-race manifold results speak for themselves. Getting that much more response with the smaller runners and higher velocity while still delivering great gains on the top end is a winning combination! Based on my current HP goals of 600-650 crank HP it should be the last manifold I'll need.