Stock Tune...Lean AFR (Fuel pump relay failure could damage your engine!) - Page 3

funks · Aug 13, 2009, 03:03 PM

are there locally available relays that fit and can be used to replace the stocker? eq. from napa?

nj1266 · Aug 13, 2009, 03:27 PM

Just want to share with you the AFR data with the bad relay and the AFR data with the good relay. As I said at the outset the car was running lean for a stocker.

Here is the data after we swapped relays (the high beam relay instead of the fuel pump relay). Notice how richer the AFR became. That is the Evo Xs should run stock with a drop-in and 017 rom id

nj1266 · Aug 13, 2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funks

are there locally available relays that fit and can be used to replace the stocker? eq. from napa?

Before you do that, you have to determine if you have the problem. One test that SpunkySandoval conducted was to swap the fuel pump relay into the high beam relay and turn on the high beam. A few seconds later the high beam shut down. I have highlighted the chart with the relays

Spunkysandoval · Aug 13, 2009, 09:34 PM

This is a really great test. It's quick and conclusive. Thanks for sharing that with everyone Naji. Also, Thanks for making my car feel right.

KevinD · Aug 14, 2009, 08:48 AM

uhhh, you should have just read the "leaning out under WOT" thread here:

Leaning out under WOT

it has all the diagrams, relay problem, and solution for you.

also, if you want mitsu to fix the issue, bring the bad relay to them and tell them it is a warranty part and you want a new one. tell them where it came from. the more they get back, the more likely they are to realize it is an issue.

Chris@AMS · Aug 25, 2009, 04:23 PM

Recently I have seen an event happening which I felt would be worth mentioning to those of you that own an EVO X. I may have found an issue that would affect the fuel system of the car and make the car run very lean, and possibly cause engine damage. The issue is related to the stock fuel pump voltage switching relay. The Evolution 8, 9 and now the 10 all have a relay which switches the fuel pump from low voltage to high voltage when certain conditions are met (full throttle, or boosted conditions).

The purpose of the relay switching the voltage is so that the fuel pump will last longer due to the reduced load it will see about 9 volts. When the car goes full throttle full battery voltage (13.5-14.5V) is needed for enough fuel flow even at the stock tune’s levels.

The issue that I have been seeing is that the relay will be stuck in the LOW position. Obviously you can see how this would be a major issue. I had it happen to me once here at AMS, I swapped it out the with Daytime Running Light relay and everything seemed to be fine, and I thought nothing of it. Recently though, on a tuning trip to Texas I had the same exact thing happen to me 2 more times. I would hop in a customer’s car and do a baseline pull to see where the car was at before making any changes, and it would be the 13’s and 14’s for air fuel ratio. After messing with the first car I was tuning a bit trying to figure it out, I remembered the issue that I had on the car back at the shop and I swapped the relays. Immediately the car was super rich when in full boost because of all the extra fuel I had added in at the lower pump voltage.

I thought that it was odd that it had happened twice, but then again the next day when I was out tuning cars it happened AGAIN! Again I swapped the relay and everything was all good. Later on that day I received a call from one of my customers saying that his DRL’s were staying on and he was asking me I knew any possible reason why…

.

So, in summation I would like to make it known that there may be a possible issue with some cars and their fuel pump relays. I think this may be the cause of several of the motor failures that have been noted around EVOM and may currently be the cause of other supposed engine failures due to weak parts.

What you should do:

If you have an EVO X with a wideband A/F gauge in it, just check your A/F ratio

If you have an EVOX without an A/F gauge in it, I would swap out the fuel pump relay with the DRL relay and see if there is an issue with your DRL’s staying on with the car off. I have had several cars where I swapped the relay out with the DRL’s and have had no further issue, however I believe that one relay was so far gone, that it actually kept the DRL’s on.

If you have an EVOX and are super paranoid about what may happen, I would get a volt meter and a buddy and pull up your rear seat and find the fuel pump positive wire. With the car running you should have about 9V, when the car is in boost you should have above 12V and there should be a clear point at which it switches.

If you are super duper paranoid and you don’t care about your warranty it may be a good idea to hot-wire your pump.

Here is the circuit:

This issue seems to be prevalent on cars with higher mileage on them.

Daskid · Aug 25, 2009, 04:42 PM

Are you referring to Fuel Pump Relay 1?

Gardo_Segovia · Aug 25, 2009, 04:45 PM

^ +1

and...

been staring at the diagram for 10-mins, I have yet to spot the DRL relay..I failed.

Spins4 · Aug 25, 2009, 04:49 PM

Wow. Thanks for the heads up Chris! i'm still in the middle of breaking my X in, but I am going to do that swap just to prevent further paranoia.

Awesome job as usual

Daskid · Aug 25, 2009, 04:58 PM

I'll hardwire a volt meter across the relay to read either 9V or 12V. Just wanna make sure it's the correct relay to tap into. Looks like it is though...

Daskid · Aug 25, 2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardo_Segovia

^ +1

and...

been staring at the diagram for 10-mins, I have yet to spot the DRL relay..I failed.

I think he meant to say swap the fuel pump relay with the DRL's. I don't think it's in the diagram. It's mainly for testing purposes. Like he said, after you swapped it, and the DRL stays on, then you have a bad relay.

Chris@AMS · Aug 25, 2009, 05:10 PM

Fuel Pump Relay #1 is the relay that I have seen the issues with. There is no DRL relay in the diagram.

Gardo_Segovia · Aug 25, 2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daskid

I think he meant to say swap the fuel pump relay with the DRL's. I don't think it's in the diagram. It's mainly for testing purposes. Like he said, after you swapped it, and the DRL stays on, then you have a bad relay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris@AMS

Fuel Pump Relay #1 is the relay that I have seen the issues with. There is no DRL relay in the diagram.

thanks for helping a n0ob

JEP · Aug 25, 2009, 05:23 PM

is this something that we can prove to the dealer? Maybe its a tsb? I wonder how many have been changed under warranty?

LVSBB6 · Aug 25, 2009, 05:27 PM

Looks like we should include this relay in our service maintenance schedule.

Just ordered mine and costed CDN$40!!

So how often should we change this relay?? just to be on the safe side.