~ EVO X : AEM - WORKS - INJEN Intake Shootout: Round 1 - Page 2

saytheb · May 5, 2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiboost

I see your point and agree that it was clever to get a little extra HP via boost and leaner AFR's. For those that are only going to add minor mods it is a really good bang for the buck mod to make. If your plans include tuning the car for a certain boost and AFR level then those tweaks from the AEM intake won't matter and you would just be looking at the gains from the higher flow airfilter itself.

I guess it all depends on your end goals so the test is valid for comparison of a stock or near stock car without a tune, once you plan on getting a tune that has a set boost and AFR goal then you would get different results comparing the HP increase from the intakes. Still it was a nice job comparing the different intake setups and helps compare them on an untuned car.

Yeah, I agree there. If you went tune-for-tune on them as well would be pretty awesome. Then you can see if the AEM still holds up compared to others after tuning.

TTP Engineering · May 5, 2009, 05:51 PM

If you used a MBC and kept the boost the same between a stock airbox and an AEM, tuned both cars, there would not be any gains from the AEM intake. This is a serious point.

evo_soul · May 5, 2009, 09:26 PM

As was mentioned in the write up, the INJEN / AEM intake show down will be revisited. This first round of testing is just that a first round. As the next event draws closer I will post here and attempt to get more real world input in regards to testing / sampling, I will contact you a little closer to the date as well to get feedback. I must add that All 3 parties have been shown this review as well as the data results collected. INJEN is also ready to join the battle royal with their intake. It will be tested in its individual and combined configuration. Both in the Summer as well as the Cold Canada winter to factor in season change. Frank isnt looking forward to Winter Dyno runs but I am sure with the right amount of coffee and donuts he will do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTP Engineering

Nicely laid out test, however the testing is flawed, not due to the testers but due to the intake manufacturer.

The AEM intake uses trick lines to the stock boost control solenoids that raise the boost level and in-turn raise whp.

If this was to be a fair test, then the boost would have to be raised for the INJEN INTAKE, STOCK FILTER, WORKS FILTER, and NO FILTER testing.

Now think about that...

TTP to addresss your comment on if there is a flaw in the design. I am not really in a position to answer that question if there is a problem you find with its construction or methods the manufacturer used I will certainly raise it with my next Q&A with AEM.

Looking in at it from the tester perspective goal of the tests was to evaluate the performance of each intake from a Raw Stock perspective. Modifying the parameters of the test and changing the stock configuration would have interfered with the results and not provided a clear picture of a bone stock dyno.

I can attempt to understand your point of view as a professional tuner shop, you have doubts over the intakes ability/capacity to be tuned which is your opinion and that is fine. But in regards to this tests the bottom line here is to find the "Out Of The Box Performance" of all products tested. Which in most respects has been accomplished.

Tuning intakes adds a completely different aspect to the results. Since every tuner varies in skill and tunes slightly different its hard to say if one has squeezed everything out of one intake vs. another. I am not defending any product in any capacity, the results spec for themselves, but I am sure some would agree that what your proposing goes beyond standard testing. Not to mention the cost of this would be a lot higher and making future testing much more complicated. I would like to one day explorer the upward possibilities but I fear at this time I am restricted to baseline testing.

I will review the boost (BAR) levels but I do not recall any significant peaks that were noteworthy, If memory serves me correct. I will look into it further but I spoke to Frank about this in depth and nothing significant came up. But when he got frustrated with my questions I remember he said "OEM is a OEM, it needs a tune"

evo_soul · May 5, 2009, 09:40 PM

One further point .... The Injen Kit as well as others have yet to be tested. And I think this can be revisited at another time when more results are on the table. One thing this event has taught me is that anything is possible. Both the High Flow and AEM Intake surprised a lot of us there. And INJEN is a name that rarely disappoints.

To address something that was mentioned earlier steps were taken to ensure that there were not any borrowed effect gain from previous runs, even reverting back to a previous configuration just to make sure. And we ran numerous passes to Franks satisfaction.

turizmo01 · May 5, 2009, 10:25 PM

Nice write up!

evo_soul · May 5, 2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turizmo01

Nice write up!

thanks for the kind words but it was way more of a group effort

as will be the next test.
Our club has recently split the EVO's and Lancers up but everyone had fun at the last Dyno Day and look forward to the next one.

LowTech302 · May 6, 2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiboost

Basically we need Mythbusters revisted here to make sure there was a level playing field.

IMO you are over-thinking it. It was a level playing field. All of them were just intake kits on a stock Evo. I have no idea why you'd think someone looking for an intake would want to know how much power it makes with a boost controller turning down the boost or tuning the car to make sure they are all running identical AFR's. If someone expects that because their AEM intake made +X% over intake B that it will always make the same difference in HP with more mods, then they will be sorely disappointed with every aftermarket part on the market. No need for some special disclaimer just for the AEM intake.

Web9 · May 6, 2009, 09:25 AM

Excellent write up! Thanks for the info.

Laz · May 7, 2009, 12:38 PM

GREAT write up.

And no the test isn't invalid because the AEM CAI changes the boost levels. For some people out there that will never get their car pro-tuned, this product is still extremely useful and this data is beyond helpful.

I just bought my Evo X yesterday and I'm thinking that WORKS filter might be the first thing to happen.

Hiboost · May 7, 2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowTech302

IMO you are over-thinking it. It was a level playing field. All of them were just intake kits on a stock Evo. I have no idea why you'd think someone looking for an intake would want to know how much power it makes with a boost controller turning down the boost or tuning the car to make sure they are all running identical AFR's. If someone expects that because their AEM intake made +X% over intake B that it will always make the same difference in HP with more mods, then they will be sorely disappointed with every aftermarket part on the market. No need for some special disclaimer just for the AEM intake.

I think I explained it in my last post, it's a valid comparison for stock or near stock cars without a tune and I'll leave it at that.

TTP Engineering · May 7, 2009, 03:20 PM

Add an $18 boost pill to the Works and the INJEN and lets see who puts out more power.

Level the playing field.

Works filter or INJEN + $18 boost pill = LESS $ than the AEM with more power!

thrshr · May 7, 2009, 10:14 PM

Nice write up, I'm looking forward to the next level of testing. I just wished the trolling with the hate against a certain mfg stops though, it's getting old.

On a side note, what's up with the rear bumpers? are those canada specific? Makes the rear look huge.

evo_soul · May 8, 2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrshr

Nice write up, I'm looking forward to the next level of testing. I just wished the trolling with the hate against a certain mfg stops though, it's getting old.

On a side note, what's up with the rear bumpers? are those canada specific? Makes the rear look huge.

In regards to the different manufacturers and specific likes and dislikes. Everyone has their own prospectives so long as everyone remains respectful and provides data to back up their beliefs, there isnt anything wrong with that. If you are referring to TTPs opinion then its clear to understand that they disagree with AEM's design approach for the reasons already mentioned. That said, its one of many different perspectives, which is the joy of evolutionm.net. Everyone is free to express a point of view. We just have to avoid the beating of dead horses of any topic or thread.

In regards to the comment of our rear bumpers. Transport Canada (Ministry) felt it necessary to tell Mitsubishi to make the bumper larger for safety reasons. Most Canadian drivers didnt like it, but sigh... if you want an EVO, too bad. Good news is, for the new 2009 line up, Mitsubishi has chosen to match the USA spec.

saytheb · May 8, 2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTP Engineering

Add an $18 boost pill to the Works and the INJEN and lets see who puts out more power.

Level the playing field.

Works filter or INJEN + $18 boost pill = LESS $ than the AEM with more power!

That's not a level playing field.. regardless of the cost, you're now saying let's add another aftermarket part so we can level the playing field.

A level playing field is intake for intake. Exhaust for exhaust. MBC for MBC. Tune for tune (using the same Octane).

Not sure why you're so adamant that this was not a level playing field. This is why you have market choices, because some MFGs develop their parts differently. AEM is no exception. I have the AEM on my car, I did not replace anything that was not previously part of the intake. The secondary vacuum line they use still taps into the same original spot as the stock single-line does.

But yes, evo_soul, very awesome write-up. I wish I had these sooner!

TTP Engineering · May 8, 2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saytheb

That's not a level playing field.. regardless of the cost, you're now saying let's add another aftermarket part so we can level the playing field.

A level playing field is intake for intake. Exhaust for exhaust. MBC for MBC. Tune for tune (using the same Octane).

Not sure why you're so adamant that this was not a level playing field. This is why you have market choices, because some MFGs develop their parts differently. AEM is no exception. I have the AEM on my car, I did not replace anything that was not previously part of the intake. The secondary vacuum line they use still taps into the same original spot as the stock single-line does.

But yes, evo_soul, very awesome write-up. I wish I had these sooner!

The original line does NOT plug into the same location. The original LINE, becomes TWO LINES, the splitter is removed and one line is run to each boost control solenoid. Larger inside diameter lines to the intake are provided by AEM purposely to suck more than twice the signal AWAY from the wastegate signal, in turn raising the boost.

Any mechanically inclined enthusiast with knowledge of turbochargers, wastegates and boost control solenoids will understand the concept.