If you have a Cobb AP please read and respond

[hollywood_X]

I just posted this on their site and I am hoping to get some feedback from others on there to. Your input would be appreciated

http://forums.cobbtuning.com/forums/...103#post625103

Dear customer service,

I am writing this to whoever is responsible for keeping the customers happy because as of now there are a few that are not. Don’t get me wrong most of us love the product and will keep it as long as possible but that window is narrowing daily. Quite a few in just the past couple of weeks have already started selling off their units and are moving on to other tuning methods. This can be contributed to many factors;

• Lack of tuners using Cobb ProTune
• Lack of tuning training for novices
• Lack of tuning abilities in ATR
• Serial locking the ATR software
• Software tends to be buggy and crash
• No progression

I will elaborate a little on all of these just to make my point clear.

For one there is a lack of tuners for your platform because of the cost of the ProTune software and the fact that now you have serial locked ATR. This has caused many of the tuners to just have their customers switch to the competition. I know you probably did this intending to have tuners by your software but truly you now have those same tuners telling people to sell their AP. You can browse the forums; there are an increasing number of them being sold everyday at far less of a price then what they paid for them. Take in consideration that for everyone of these being sold second hand it’s a lost sale for a new one and with the amount of these on hand right now for sale used I myself wonder when the price of the new will drop.

As far as helping the novices out that would probably be a good idea on your part since it seems like the reason people are going to these tuners are for little issues that they could fix themselves except they are un aware of what to do. That and since you have locked the software down it’s more difficult to have the community help each other. I personally think it would be beneficial for Cobb to teach people how to use their software for tuning. In your help file you give a good walk through on how to tune for and intake and scale for injectors but there is so much more that could help these guys. Because once they go to the Freeware forums to learn, well they just switch for ease of learning. Again this isn’t just a “what if”, this is happening. Along with this you have kind of left the foreign markets hanging with this issue. When you put the product out you said you would have support for the different international markets yet you basically just give them the stock map to work off of with no tuning help. Then to add to it issue when people try to help them again the different platforms are locked out from each other. It is also the same issue between models, the MR and GSR crowd can’t email maps back and forth to help each other out.

Now on to the “buggy” software, and since I use both platforms I can assure you that ATR crashes much more than the other. Since I am not a software engineer I have no idea why, or what sets it off but it does. It has been a lot better since the new release yet still has issues when logging or multi tasking. It also doesn’t matter if your using anyone of the wide ranges of Windows OS systems they all seem to take a dive at one point or another. Along with this several of the functions have never worked (live tuning, cursor tracing, live tracing, etc.). It would be nice to be able to use these functions at some point or at least have an idea if they are being worked on to use.

This brings me on to tuning abilities and progression; since it’s been nearly a year since the release of the AP for the Evo X and we are just at the point of getting everything that was promised on the box working will we see any progression on abilities or is what we have all we are getting? Because for me when I bought my AP last year just after the release I called the Cobb office and asked the question “How is this better than the alternative?” the reply I got was “Unlike our competition we have full times engineers working daily to ensure that our product has superior capabilities, and we also offer customer service for our product.” So far I have yet to see the “Superior capabilities” but I will say the customer service has been good for me and others at times. There also have been times where the service has lacked and been a bit snobbish for issues and concerns. That aside it would be nice to see some improvements with the software; items such as the ability to toggle more DTC’s in the advanced engine parameters section. Improvements with the performance function to where we can open it in ATR and have comparison graphs for dynos, 0-60, and ¼ mile times. Little items like this can make up for a lot of frustration we have gone through the last year waiting for the bugs to be sorted out.

Personally as a customer what has kept me from switching thus far has been the ease of use and the portability of the AP. However if I don’t see any resolve with the items above myself and the others will probably be making the switch over to the other platform soon. When I wrote this I had several windows open from different forums so I could cut and paste the links to sales and the reasons why people were moving on but I figure if Cobb wants to be serious about keeping their customers and having repeat business they can do their own searches and see what I am talking about. Just as I have been told by a Cobb employee in the past “There is a search button, you find it.”

[1FastT2]

Im not sure where to start with my post so ill just dive into it I guess.

Im not really sure why you would have a problem finding someone to tune your car even if they don't have the Cobb Pro Tune software. All you really need is the ATR software. All of these software tuning packages are all very similar and if you can tune it really doesn't matter what software you are using. For instance I have been tuning rotarys for about 10 years and have used a various number of programs for different ECU's and never had a problem adjusting from one software to another. Im just now starting to use ATR and like I have mentioned, its all basically the same.

I'm not really sure what the problem is with the serial locking thing, I'm not sure why you would need the software if you don't have AP.

I for one really like my AP. I have the ability to revert my Evo back to stock at any point. It's important to me to have that ability.

[lowkey]

Wow, long post. What do you have a problem with, the AP itself or the tuning software? I have the AP. Plug it and flash, instant 50+ whp, as simple as that. I have had zero problems, this is a GREAT product. Can't comment about the tuning software, haven't used it. Just keep in mind in our free economy, if you don't like the product, buy something else.

[weebles]

Originally Posted by lowkey

Wow, long post. What do you have a problem with, the AP itself or the tuning software? I have the AP. Plug it and flash, instant 50+ whp, as simple as that. I have had zero problems, this is a GREAT product. Can't comment about the tuning software, haven't used it. Just keep in mind in our free economy, if you don't like the product, buy something else.

This isn't the point he's trying to make. He's trying to help cobb realize their downfalls and improve the AP support/community. Pointing out the faults of a certain product doesn't exactly mean you don't like it, just means you'd like to see change.

[rallyredX]

Great post Hollywood and thanks for all the help(direct and indirect) you have given noobs in the AP tuning area. I know you have benefited me tremendously.

[hollywood_X]

Originally Posted by 1FastT2

Im not sure where to start with my post so ill just dive into it I guess.

Im not really sure why you would have a problem finding someone to tune your car even if they don't have the Cobb Pro Tune software. All you really need is the ATR software. All of these software tuning packages are all very similar and if you can tune it really doesn't matter what software you are using. For instance I have been tuning rotarys for about 10 years and have used a various number of programs for different ECU's and never had a problem adjusting from one software to another. Im just now starting to use ATR and like I have mentioned, its all basically the same.

I'm not really sure what the problem is with the serial locking thing, I'm not sure why you would need the software if you don't have AP.

I for one really like my AP. I have the ability to revert my Evo back to stock at any point. It's important to me to have that ability.

I don't have an issue finding a tuner, I tune my own. However there are others in the community that don't have the experience with mechanics and tuning ability that I do and several of them have tried to have local tuning shops tune using their AP but the shops have told them they only use OS. This is what I am trying to get across to Cobb. They are hindering themselves by locking the software. Just look at how many tuners use OS and even though its free there are still people paying them to tune their cars.

Originally Posted by lowkey

Wow, long post. What do you have a problem with, the AP itself or the tuning software? I have the AP. Plug it and flash, instant 50+ whp, as simple as that. I have had zero problems, this is a GREAT product. Can't comment about the tuning software, haven't used it. Just keep in mind in our free economy, if you don't like the product, buy something else.

I don't have any issues with the AP itself, its a wonderfull little device that is nearly perfect for what I need. I am simply trying to "Help" Cobb get the feedback they need to continue to develop on what they have. If you never get back with the customer then how do you know what to build for them? I do have some issues with the level of customer service they supply at times. Too often I have seen people post simple questions on their site and get smart ass answers back or basically tell them they are wrong, only to have an update come out later fixing the problem the person was bringing to their attention.

Originally Posted by weebles

This isn't the point he's trying to make. He's trying to help cobb realize their downfalls and improve the AP support/community. Pointing out the faults of a certain product doesn't exactly mean you don't like it, just means you'd like to see change.

Yes, I want to see them actually grow for the better. Like I said the product is good it just needs a little work on going the direction the customers want it to. We are out numbered by the other platforms and it seems like Cobb is pandering more to their needs because the X community is too quiet for what we want. Time to make some noise

Originally Posted by rallyredX

Great post Hollywood and thanks for all the help(direct and indirect) you have given noobs in the AP tuning area. I know you have benefited me tremendously.

Your welcome

[Ruff Ryda]

Just so everyone knows, I have payed special attention to Hollywood's post on the other evo forums and also got some advice from him before going stage 2.

This guy knows what he is talking about!

[lowkey]

Originally Posted by hollywood_X

I don't have any issues with the AP itself, its a wonderfull little device that is nearly perfect for what I need. I am simply trying to "Help" Cobb get the feedback they need to continue to develop on what they have. If you never get back with the customer then how do you know what to build for them?

Ahh... got it. I support your efforts

[dwhit757]

I do not have a Cobb AP but I still think i will get one, because i want to one day tune my own car and i have faith that Cobb will get better with there software so i will take a gamble and buy it I hope Cobb personel are reading this thread though

[weebles]

Originally Posted by dwhit757

I do not have a Cobb AP but I still think i will get one, because i want to one day tune my own car and i have faith that Cobb will get better with there software so i will take a gamble and buy it I hope Cobb personel are reading this thread though

Nothing beats the AP for plug and play power.

[Methodical4u]

have one... it's always been good, haven't experienced any bugs. It's helped me to increase power and save fuel. Obviously from my sig Mellon custom tuned mine and I didn't hear him complain about the software other than it was a little different from what he was used to.

[hollywood_X]

Originally Posted by Methodical4u

have one... it's always been good, haven't experienced any bugs. It's helped me to increase power and save fuel. Obviously from my sig Mellon custom tuned mine and I didn't hear him complain about the software other than it was a little different from what he was used to.

I have spoke with Mr.Mellon about the AP maybe he can post up some of his insight and experience and as a tuner what he would like to see.

[HR2L]

It is kinda of sad to see what COBB has come to within the tunning world in the past 1.5yrs...
especially when you look at Open ECU tuning and its popularity amongst the EVO community and tuners across the country. I can buy a cheap laptop that can run ECUFLASH buy a tantrix cable and save myself 250 dollars (Plus the software is actually that much better)...

This is why I have not gone AP with my EVO X (and I was all about AP when it came to my STI). The lack of pure software stability (for tuners, random quirks) and tuners that have basicly abandoned the use of it to tune.

Hopefully COBB will get there **** together. For all markets (Not just the Subaru community...).

[Evofreak21]

This is a excellent thread, I have been ready to buy a AP but lack of tuning specialist in my area has me reluctant to buy the product. I am also getting ready to move in a couple of months to Nebraska, and a AP tuner/dealer is nonexistent up north. If their were a guide on how to tune with the AP myself would be awesome.

[ikt]

Interesting read, I had planned on getting an AP for my Evo. I used a UTEC on my STi, and liked the flexibility, but AP was what everyone else used, but I have recently heard so many bad things about it for EVOs.