MAP Tubular Manifold Dyno Testing - EvoX
Sep 11, 2010, 11:06 PM
#1
MAP Tubular Manifold Dyno Testing - EvoX
Caveots: I don't work for MAP; this is an unbiased review by a car guy that wants nothing more than to make his car faster.
I let MAP borrow my car for a few days for their lil-welder that could (Chris is amazing) to fab up a prototype for their tubular exhaust manifold for the Evo X. I'll be beating the **** out of the car and just generally making sure the thing works so that the product is as good as it can be. There may be some minor revisions but the manifold you see here will be available either cleaned up or ceramic coated.
The thing is really a work of art, I will get more pics of it. The flanges used are amazing CNC pieces and the welding is out of this world. There's not much to say about the product itself other than its built right here in the USA and the quality is nothing short of world-class.
We kept the testing *extremely* simple on this. My X was tuned only a few weeks ago and the tune was untouched throughout the entire process. The car put down 4-5 good baseline pulls before we yanked the stock manifold to get the prototype on. After it was locked and loaded, guess what? We made more dyno pulls! I made them do several to be sure but the results consistent and correct.
Holy crap that can't be right! We poured over the numbers and other dyno plots. The truth was right there in front of us. The car lost about 400rpm in spool. I was a bit disappointed by this to be honest but I feel like it could be helped with some tuning. This manifold utilizes 1.25" runners to avoid being too laggy.
Power. From 6500-8000 the car gained 35+whp. From 7000-8000rpm the car is up a solid 40whp! I was absolutely in shock, this couldn't be possible! But it was...it SO was!
[youtube]QK-vA7jSdVE[/youtube]
Now, the awesome part. Projects like this can take some time, but I told the guys at MAP that I was going to the drag strip this Saturday come hell or high water. Things ran late as they always do, but they made good on their promise. Friday night at 7pm the car was on the rollers for this test and then I went home to get ready for the trip to the track the next day.
Driveability. The car honestly doesn't feel any laggier, maybe a bit in 2nd gear but cruising around the car feels the same, until you are WOT and in the upper rpm. The car feels SO much better now, its still just as smooth and fun but damn it just rips up top! The car is starting to make enough power now that you start to get that floating feeling when staying in the powerband.
Reliability. I have honestly been the eternal skeptic on tubular manifolds. They all crack, it's easy to just say that. I'll update this thread down the road and let you know how it hangs in there. My hopes are *very* high that it will last for years to come!
*edit* current power mods:
aFe intake w/ perrin inlet
custom 2.5" UICP
custom 3" pte core fmic (not much bigger than stock)
MAP tubular header
CBRD BBX Turbo
MAP O2 Elim Downpipe
Megan Testpipe
Magnaflow Catback
hallman mbc
dw 800cc injectors (BP 93 oct)
I let MAP borrow my car for a few days for their lil-welder that could (Chris is amazing) to fab up a prototype for their tubular exhaust manifold for the Evo X. I'll be beating the **** out of the car and just generally making sure the thing works so that the product is as good as it can be. There may be some minor revisions but the manifold you see here will be available either cleaned up or ceramic coated.
The thing is really a work of art, I will get more pics of it. The flanges used are amazing CNC pieces and the welding is out of this world. There's not much to say about the product itself other than its built right here in the USA and the quality is nothing short of world-class.
We kept the testing *extremely* simple on this. My X was tuned only a few weeks ago and the tune was untouched throughout the entire process. The car put down 4-5 good baseline pulls before we yanked the stock manifold to get the prototype on. After it was locked and loaded, guess what? We made more dyno pulls! I made them do several to be sure but the results consistent and correct.
Holy crap that can't be right! We poured over the numbers and other dyno plots. The truth was right there in front of us. The car lost about 400rpm in spool. I was a bit disappointed by this to be honest but I feel like it could be helped with some tuning. This manifold utilizes 1.25" runners to avoid being too laggy.
Power. From 6500-8000 the car gained 35+whp. From 7000-8000rpm the car is up a solid 40whp! I was absolutely in shock, this couldn't be possible! But it was...it SO was!
[youtube]QK-vA7jSdVE[/youtube]
Now, the awesome part. Projects like this can take some time, but I told the guys at MAP that I was going to the drag strip this Saturday come hell or high water. Things ran late as they always do, but they made good on their promise. Friday night at 7pm the car was on the rollers for this test and then I went home to get ready for the trip to the track the next day.
Driveability. The car honestly doesn't feel any laggier, maybe a bit in 2nd gear but cruising around the car feels the same, until you are WOT and in the upper rpm. The car feels SO much better now, its still just as smooth and fun but damn it just rips up top! The car is starting to make enough power now that you start to get that floating feeling when staying in the powerband.
Reliability. I have honestly been the eternal skeptic on tubular manifolds. They all crack, it's easy to just say that. I'll update this thread down the road and let you know how it hangs in there. My hopes are *very* high that it will last for years to come!
*edit* current power mods:
aFe intake w/ perrin inlet
custom 2.5" UICP
custom 3" pte core fmic (not much bigger than stock)
MAP tubular header
CBRD BBX Turbo
MAP O2 Elim Downpipe
Megan Testpipe
Magnaflow Catback
hallman mbc
dw 800cc injectors (BP 93 oct)
Last edited by scheides; Sep 11, 2010 at 11:10 PM.
Sep 12, 2010, 09:31 AM
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Keep us posted!!!
Sep 12, 2010, 12:58 PM
#7
The 346whp number was dialed back 1° of timing across the board for safety's sake, so instead of 346 think more like high 330's on this tune, say 338whp. Also when I got to the track yesterday it was knocking a little bit so maybe an iffy tank of gas? Although this test was consistent for these manifolds, I wouldn't put a ton of stake in it for dyno comparison; they are 3 weeks apart and the weather has been all over the place here in MN. Not sure but my cars always seem to be more like 10-12% while I see countless other examples be almost exactly 15% difference from dyno dynamics to dynojet.
The 371whp number to me was kinda low as well, but then I noticed that he was not revving the car all the way to 8k for those runs. The first run with the new manifold was like 400 or 405whp stopping the run at 7500, then when we revved it out to 8000 it of course went up to 413/414. Extrapolate that 371whp a bit to 380whp on the same principal and use the 338whp number I mentioned above and the difference is 12.4%.
Chances are I'll find my way back to the dyno dynamics dyno sooner or later, so and early on I had expected to be right around 360-365whp on this setup...add 12.4% and you're at 410whp, so that number is close to the real-world 313whp/314whp numbers we saw.
Consensus? People always want to put an exact number on the difference between dynos and it in fact needs to be a range; its the real world, too many variables. I usually gun for 15% b/w the two dynos but I've seen everything from 12-17% difference; 15% is just a guesstimate/starting point, YMMV, who knows, etc.
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Sep 12, 2010, 05:16 PM
#9
Freaking knew you guys would call me on that (not that I was trying to hide anything). Here's my stance on that.
The 346whp number was dialed back 1° of timing across the board for safety's sake, so instead of 346 think more like high 330's on this tune, say 338whp. Also when I got to the track yesterday it was knocking a little bit so maybe an iffy tank of gas? Although this test was consistent for these manifolds, I wouldn't put a ton of stake in it for dyno comparison; they are 3 weeks apart and the weather has been all over the place here in MN. Not sure but my cars always seem to be more like 10-12% while I see countless other examples be almost exactly 15% difference from dyno dynamics to dynojet.
The 371whp number to me was kinda low as well, but then I noticed that he was not revving the car all the way to 8k for those runs. The first run with the new manifold was like 400 or 405whp stopping the run at 7500, then when we revved it out to 8000 it of course went up to 413/414. Extrapolate that 371whp a bit to 380whp on the same principal and use the 338whp number I mentioned above and the difference is 12.4%.
Chances are I'll find my way back to the dyno dynamics dyno sooner or later, so and early on I had expected to be right around 360-365whp on this setup...add 12.4% and you're at 410whp, so that number is close to the real-world 313whp/314whp numbers we saw.
Consensus? People always want to put an exact number on the difference between dynos and it in fact needs to be a range; its the real world, too many variables. I usually gun for 15% b/w the two dynos but I've seen everything from 12-17% difference; 15% is just a guesstimate/starting point, YMMV, who knows, etc.
The 346whp number was dialed back 1° of timing across the board for safety's sake, so instead of 346 think more like high 330's on this tune, say 338whp. Also when I got to the track yesterday it was knocking a little bit so maybe an iffy tank of gas? Although this test was consistent for these manifolds, I wouldn't put a ton of stake in it for dyno comparison; they are 3 weeks apart and the weather has been all over the place here in MN. Not sure but my cars always seem to be more like 10-12% while I see countless other examples be almost exactly 15% difference from dyno dynamics to dynojet.
The 371whp number to me was kinda low as well, but then I noticed that he was not revving the car all the way to 8k for those runs. The first run with the new manifold was like 400 or 405whp stopping the run at 7500, then when we revved it out to 8000 it of course went up to 413/414. Extrapolate that 371whp a bit to 380whp on the same principal and use the 338whp number I mentioned above and the difference is 12.4%.
Chances are I'll find my way back to the dyno dynamics dyno sooner or later, so and early on I had expected to be right around 360-365whp on this setup...add 12.4% and you're at 410whp, so that number is close to the real-world 313whp/314whp numbers we saw.
Consensus? People always want to put an exact number on the difference between dynos and it in fact needs to be a range; its the real world, too many variables. I usually gun for 15% b/w the two dynos but I've seen everything from 12-17% difference; 15% is just a guesstimate/starting point, YMMV, who knows, etc.
Good reply, but it won't change anyone's mind. I am guessing you are running load based still or are you psi based now?
Sep 12, 2010, 06:52 PM
#12
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Wait, I can't be part of the great recockulious never ending dyno comparisons?
;P
I guess I forgot to put a wink emoticon at the end of my post because I was saying it in jest.
- Bryan
;P
I guess I forgot to put a wink emoticon at the end of my post because I was saying it in jest.
- Bryan
Sep 12, 2010, 09:23 PM
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,, and a couple of these---
right before the
