Perrin PSRS: Anti-lift, Yea or Nay?
Mar 10, 2011, 07:12 AM
#1
Perrin PSRS: Anti-lift, Yea or Nay?
I have installed the PSRS bushings and will be putting the front suspension back together soon but I wanted to get some advice on the "Anti-Lift" feature of the PSRS.
Depending on how you install the spacers, you can retain factory geometry or you can create a small angle on the lower control arm to produce an "anti-lift" effect. Am I correct in the assumption that any amount of anti-lift produces a corresponding amount of pro-dive under braking?
Does the factory suspension geometry already have an amount of anti-lift/anti-dive built into it? Also, how does caster affect this in a Macpherson strut suspension?
Has anybody tried out both settings on the PSRS?
FWIW, I'm primarily interested in auto-x duties as I imagine this type of setting could be very race type dependent?
Thanks
Depending on how you install the spacers, you can retain factory geometry or you can create a small angle on the lower control arm to produce an "anti-lift" effect. Am I correct in the assumption that any amount of anti-lift produces a corresponding amount of pro-dive under braking?
Does the factory suspension geometry already have an amount of anti-lift/anti-dive built into it? Also, how does caster affect this in a Macpherson strut suspension?
Has anybody tried out both settings on the PSRS?
FWIW, I'm primarily interested in auto-x duties as I imagine this type of setting could be very race type dependent?
Thanks
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Mar 10, 2011 at 07:15 AM.
Mar 10, 2011, 07:25 AM
#2
Quick short answer as I walk out the door....the "anti-lift" effect is actually a pro lift effect with the PSRS and explained incorrectly in their marketing.
I have a Whiteline paper that explains it nicely that I'll put up in about 25 minutes.
- Andrew
I have a Whiteline paper that explains it nicely that I'll put up in about 25 minutes.
- Andrew
Mar 10, 2011, 07:34 AM
#3
That makes A LOT more sense as everything I had read seemed like it was an pro-lift/anti-dive geometry change! I thought I was just slow and didn't get what I was reading.
I believe this is the paper you are referring to?
I just happened to be reading over it.
http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles...WL%20ALK_b.pdf
I believe this is the paper you are referring to?
I just happened to be reading over it.
http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles...WL%20ALK_b.pdf
Mar 10, 2011, 07:55 AM
#4
^ That's the one. Perrin has had an incorrect description of the part for as long as I can remember (for WRX before EVO). I think there's also question on the legality of the part, even their "auto-x" legal version.
That said, it is a nice piece.
- Andrew
That said, it is a nice piece.
- Andrew
Mar 10, 2011, 09:45 AM
#6
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This sounds like a nice kit on paper, but every person I have spoken with about this PSRS that has a lot of road race experience have suggested against it.
I'm not a big fan of Perrin anyways and the way I understand them misrepresenting their product in this case certainly doesn't change that opinion of them.
I'm not a big fan of Perrin anyways and the way I understand them misrepresenting their product in this case certainly doesn't change that opinion of them.
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Mar 10, 2011, 10:03 AM
#9
This sounds like a nice kit on paper, but every person I have spoken with about this PSRS that has a lot of road race experience have suggested against it.
I'm not a big fan of Perrin anyways and the way I understand them misrepresenting their product in this case certainly doesn't change that opinion of them.
I'm not a big fan of Perrin anyways and the way I understand them misrepresenting their product in this case certainly doesn't change that opinion of them.
Mar 10, 2011, 11:06 AM
#10
Doesn't seem like it would be an issue at all in street mod as the rules allow changes to any suspension components, provided they maintain the factory mounting point on the chassis. These do just that? I could see them not being legal in the other classes besides E-mod though as you are replacing rubber with metal.
As far as how it moves the wheel forward, that's why I did these more then anything. Right now, I can't get any caster out of the car as the tire runs into the back of the fender well. Based on some rough measurments and some trig, it seemed like these alone move the tire forward ~3/8". Then with another 1-2 degrees of caster on a caster plate (roughly 6-7* total), the tire ends up like 1/8" forward overall.
As far as how it moves the wheel forward, that's why I did these more then anything. Right now, I can't get any caster out of the car as the tire runs into the back of the fender well. Based on some rough measurments and some trig, it seemed like these alone move the tire forward ~3/8". Then with another 1-2 degrees of caster on a caster plate (roughly 6-7* total), the tire ends up like 1/8" forward overall.
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Mar 10, 2011 at 11:10 AM.
Mar 11, 2011, 09:00 AM
#11
I dont know what road racers you are talking to but the Evo could definately use more Caster, caster is one of the few things that has far more benifits than negative effects: Increases camber when turning lowering the amount of camber needed, helps controll nose diving under braking more positive steering feel, steering wheel will not wander as much.
Negatives are that your steering will be a little harder to turn but thats not really an issue since we have power steering.
Hope this info helps, I plan on getting a set of these.
Negatives are that your steering will be a little harder to turn but thats not really an issue since we have power steering.
Hope this info helps, I plan on getting a set of these.
Mar 11, 2011, 09:30 AM
#12
Thanks for the thoughts on caster, but I'm only interested in the "anti-lift" (or apparently pro-lift) aspect of this piece at this point.
I already have them and the bushings are installed. Just interested in which side I should put the smaller spacers. I'd have to double check, but I think offseting the arm vertically from center will reduce the interference issues with the chassis.
It seems like the will be a pretty minor effect anyway? The Subaru kit changes the rear mounting poitn by like 20mm, where this is like 3mm. I'm wondering if it's even enough to matter in either case?
I already have them and the bushings are installed. Just interested in which side I should put the smaller spacers. I'd have to double check, but I think offseting the arm vertically from center will reduce the interference issues with the chassis.
It seems like the will be a pretty minor effect anyway? The Subaru kit changes the rear mounting poitn by like 20mm, where this is like 3mm. I'm wondering if it's even enough to matter in either case?
Jan 26, 2012, 04:05 PM
#13
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I hate the term Anti-Lift Kit. From the beginning we have battle with this because the WL Anti-lift kit isn't keeping the car from lifting under acceleration or decelerating. Notice why we call it a PSRS. Its really an Anti-Anti-Lift kit or pro-lift. They describe the name of the kit because is a fix for anti-dive geometry, which has confused tons of customers, and also some of our team as well 
There has never been a time we argued with forum members differently. But for sure our website has had this info wrong a couple of times (again it seems). There are many people involved with website info and it looks like this is old info, and or they also confused the Anti-lift feature, thinking it actually means Anti-lift and reworded it themselves. This adds to the confusion big time when other people see this.
Also the bigger benefit in our eyes is the removal of the squishy bushing on the car. This is where you feel the difference. The Pro-Lift feature is something that most people don't feel. What they notice is the car steering straighter under braking and accelerating. Also not wanting to follow ruts in the road. Because this is what we feel is the bigger benefit, we call it the PSRS.
Sometimes it seems like people are making it sound like we invented this part and we should know our own parts. This is not correct at all. In fact WL is where I personally learned why you want this. No secret there, they have been around for a very long time. Years ago we saw the demand for this part and came up with a better way to make it, add more caster, and make it stiffer than they offer. Simple as that.
For the EVO we have always had the optional spacers to add some Pro-Lift to the car. 90% of the kits sold are offset and customers add the Pro-lift features. Please don't hate us just because some of our info is wrong. We really work hard to make sure all this is correct. Also if people see something wrong, please tell us! We make mistakes just like anyone else!
There has never been a time we argued with forum members differently. But for sure our website has had this info wrong a couple of times (again it seems). There are many people involved with website info and it looks like this is old info, and or they also confused the Anti-lift feature, thinking it actually means Anti-lift and reworded it themselves. This adds to the confusion big time when other people see this.
Also the bigger benefit in our eyes is the removal of the squishy bushing on the car. This is where you feel the difference. The Pro-Lift feature is something that most people don't feel. What they notice is the car steering straighter under braking and accelerating. Also not wanting to follow ruts in the road. Because this is what we feel is the bigger benefit, we call it the PSRS.
Sometimes it seems like people are making it sound like we invented this part and we should know our own parts. This is not correct at all. In fact WL is where I personally learned why you want this. No secret there, they have been around for a very long time. Years ago we saw the demand for this part and came up with a better way to make it, add more caster, and make it stiffer than they offer. Simple as that.
For the EVO we have always had the optional spacers to add some Pro-Lift to the car. 90% of the kits sold are offset and customers add the Pro-lift features. Please don't hate us just because some of our info is wrong. We really work hard to make sure all this is correct. Also if people see something wrong, please tell us! We make mistakes just like anyone else!
Jan 26, 2012, 04:23 PM
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The subarus on the other hand are totally screwed by kits like the whiteline anti-lift kit because it involves changing the suspension mount itself which relocates the stock suspension pickup point in reference to where it connects to the frame.