No power steering at idle
Jul 22, 2014, 04:51 PM
#1
No power steering at idle
I autocross the car and it has been good so far, until this past Sunday. Simply put the car ran fine all day and right at the last gate on the last run before the finish I lost traction and spun the car as I got all four tires on a concrete strip just right.... I had a laugh as I haven't done that in a while. Then I realized I had a problem. And for info, it is a 2003 Evo 8 with under 20k on the clock.
Once the car settled out and came to a stop, I went to crank the wheel over to get going in the right direction and no power steering. I continued to have none and went back to the grid. Popped the hood and looked around for some sign of trauma... nothing. No leaks and I checked the fluid and it was at the proper level and is still clean and smells normal. I did check the temperature and it was at 141F in the reservoir so no overheating. Also no signs of bubbles. I let the car sit and had to go out to work on the track for the next heat and after an hour and a half I came back and started the car.... no power steering. Great. Drove back to the pits to gather my stuff and on the way over I noticed that with engine RPM, I regain power steering.
I then figured that I would chance it and drive the 40-min ride home. Made it no problem, and as long as I was decently above idle RPM's--- I had normal power steering. There are no leaks, no noises, no whining, nothing out of the normal except a lack of power assist at lower RPM's. I have looked through the manual and then online... nothing good to work with for what I can find. It appears that Mitsu does not have a rebuild kit nor do they show an exploded view of the pump.
Does anyone have an exploded view of the pump or at least have a diagram/ explanation of what the plugs in the front and rear of the pump are for. I have marked them 1 & 2 in the picture and I am fairly sure there is an assembly under the high pressure hose marked #3.
Any help would be appreciated.
UPDATE: I just took out #1... does anyone have any idea what this should look like and function. I took out the main piece and the piston that is inside the piece you take out appears to be stuck with the groove in the shaft in the middle of the window. From what I can tell this is not right as I cannot move the center piston and it appears that it does move on its own as I can see marks inside the main piece. Thoughts?
Technical10
Once the car settled out and came to a stop, I went to crank the wheel over to get going in the right direction and no power steering. I continued to have none and went back to the grid. Popped the hood and looked around for some sign of trauma... nothing. No leaks and I checked the fluid and it was at the proper level and is still clean and smells normal. I did check the temperature and it was at 141F in the reservoir so no overheating. Also no signs of bubbles. I let the car sit and had to go out to work on the track for the next heat and after an hour and a half I came back and started the car.... no power steering. Great. Drove back to the pits to gather my stuff and on the way over I noticed that with engine RPM, I regain power steering.
I then figured that I would chance it and drive the 40-min ride home. Made it no problem, and as long as I was decently above idle RPM's--- I had normal power steering. There are no leaks, no noises, no whining, nothing out of the normal except a lack of power assist at lower RPM's. I have looked through the manual and then online... nothing good to work with for what I can find. It appears that Mitsu does not have a rebuild kit nor do they show an exploded view of the pump.
Does anyone have an exploded view of the pump or at least have a diagram/ explanation of what the plugs in the front and rear of the pump are for. I have marked them 1 & 2 in the picture and I am fairly sure there is an assembly under the high pressure hose marked #3.
Any help would be appreciated.
UPDATE: I just took out #1... does anyone have any idea what this should look like and function. I took out the main piece and the piston that is inside the piece you take out appears to be stuck with the groove in the shaft in the middle of the window. From what I can tell this is not right as I cannot move the center piston and it appears that it does move on its own as I can see marks inside the main piece. Thoughts?
Technical10
Last edited by Technical10; Jul 22, 2014 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Update
Jul 30, 2014, 11:50 AM
#2
Have you checked the pulley and belt to make sure it has proper tension as well as the pulley didn't come loose? I know it sounds basic, but it sounds like the pump isn't building enough pressure at idle, hence why you have no power steering at idle.
I believe there is a blue wire that goes to the power steering pressure sensor on the steering pump too, make sure that is intact, its a pretty small wire and from what I can remember I believe is hidden under neath the little brake on the right of your picture.
It all else fails, it may not be a bad idea to get another pump and see what happens, I'd hate to throw a part at it though if it doesn't need it.
I believe there is a blue wire that goes to the power steering pressure sensor on the steering pump too, make sure that is intact, its a pretty small wire and from what I can remember I believe is hidden under neath the little brake on the right of your picture.
It all else fails, it may not be a bad idea to get another pump and see what happens, I'd hate to throw a part at it though if it doesn't need it.
Jul 30, 2014, 12:12 PM
#3
I found the exploded diagram but it does not get into the guts of the actual power steering pump (pdf file attached including section with torque specs etc..).
Also, the diagram does not identify items #1 & #2 you are inquiring about.
Regardless, I hope this helps!
Also, the diagram does not identify items #1 & #2 you are inquiring about.
Regardless, I hope this helps!
Aug 2, 2014, 05:01 PM
#4
Have you checked the pulley and belt to make sure it has proper tension as well as the pulley didn't come loose? I know it sounds basic, but it sounds like the pump isn't building enough pressure at idle, hence why you have no power steering at idle.
I believe there is a blue wire that goes to the power steering pressure sensor on the steering pump too, make sure that is intact, its a pretty small wire and from what I can remember I believe is hidden under neath the little brake on the right of your picture.
It all else fails, it may not be a bad idea to get another pump and see what happens, I'd hate to throw a part at it though if it doesn't need it.
I believe there is a blue wire that goes to the power steering pressure sensor on the steering pump too, make sure that is intact, its a pretty small wire and from what I can remember I believe is hidden under neath the little brake on the right of your picture.
It all else fails, it may not be a bad idea to get another pump and see what happens, I'd hate to throw a part at it though if it doesn't need it.
On the Evo's they have an auto tensioner, so if it fails, well, a lot more goes wrong than just power steering! The sensor only detects speed of the pump... I think.
Technical10
Aug 2, 2014, 05:03 PM
#5
I found the exploded diagram but it does not get into the guts of the actual power steering pump (pdf file attached including section with torque specs etc..).
Also, the diagram does not identify items #1 & #2 you are inquiring about.
Regardless, I hope this helps!
Also, the diagram does not identify items #1 & #2 you are inquiring about.
Regardless, I hope this helps!
Thanks for the pics. The issue seems to be that since Mitsu does not have a rebuild kit... they only show the whole thing. In their minds.... if it breaks, just plunk down a ton of money replace it.
Technical 10
Aug 2, 2014, 05:14 PM
#6
Problem resolved!
So I decided to purchase a junkyard pump. Found one with decent mileage and did the deed. Then they called and said that it had a bent pulley and they'd knock the price in half... so I still took it for $100 to my door.
It came the next day and I the first thing I took off was the front 22mm nut and the relief valve.... behaved/ looked the same as my original. Hmmm, next! So I decided to just take the pump off of the car and take it apart, what can that hurt?
That leaves me with finding the problem.... pictures are attached... The junkyard pump on the left, my original on the right.
The pump was all scored up on either side of the rotor, rotor housings, and the vanes. I guess it was from years of drag racing and constant high RPM's that often saw over 10k in 3rd and 4th gears. After now expecting more from the steering in autocross... the vanes started to stick the more the rotor would grab onto the end plates. So I took apart the other pump and between the two, I made a pump. I used my original housing and main shaft/ pulley, but everything else was from the junkyard pump. Put it in, filled it, purged it.... started it. Power steering is back to normal. No noises, no issues, and a relatively cheap fix overall.
As far as what the 22mm nuts and what is behind them.... the front one is a pressure relief. The rear one has a spring that puts tension on the inner race for alignment. And in the high pressure line, there is, well, nothing. It is only an adapter for the line and nothing else.
Hopefully this can help someone else troubleshoot if they run across a similar problem.
Technical10
It came the next day and I the first thing I took off was the front 22mm nut and the relief valve.... behaved/ looked the same as my original. Hmmm, next! So I decided to just take the pump off of the car and take it apart, what can that hurt?
That leaves me with finding the problem.... pictures are attached... The junkyard pump on the left, my original on the right.
The pump was all scored up on either side of the rotor, rotor housings, and the vanes. I guess it was from years of drag racing and constant high RPM's that often saw over 10k in 3rd and 4th gears. After now expecting more from the steering in autocross... the vanes started to stick the more the rotor would grab onto the end plates. So I took apart the other pump and between the two, I made a pump. I used my original housing and main shaft/ pulley, but everything else was from the junkyard pump. Put it in, filled it, purged it.... started it. Power steering is back to normal. No noises, no issues, and a relatively cheap fix overall.
As far as what the 22mm nuts and what is behind them.... the front one is a pressure relief. The rear one has a spring that puts tension on the inner race for alignment. And in the high pressure line, there is, well, nothing. It is only an adapter for the line and nothing else.
Hopefully this can help someone else troubleshoot if they run across a similar problem.
Technical10
Aug 3, 2014, 04:56 AM
#7
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Glad you fixed the problem and thanks for the follow up posts. So many times you get these "please help me I'm desperate posts" and then nothing about the fix or follow up to give back to the community. Thanks Technical10.
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