Why is my 4g64 w/Evo VIII Head Perfectly in Time?
Jun 10, 2012, 07:35 PM
#1
Why is my 4g64 w/Evo VIII Head Perfectly in Time?
Hey EvoM,
I've been working on a 2.4L (4g64) build, and everything has gone smooth except for the timing. I timed the motor many times following the Mitsu Service manual, however, every single time the timing comes out perfectly. The crank is at TDC when the cams are at TDC.
I'm using a 4g64 belt which I know has an extra tooth, which to me means that the extra tooth would be evenly distributed between each cam gear, thus making up for the extra 6mm of deck height, making the motor time perfectly.
However, I was told that each cam gear should be off 3.75*, but my motor times perfectly.
I've timed other 4g63s without issue, and am following the service manual, so I'm at a complete loss as to why this should be.
It doesn't make sense to me that one could time the same motor two different ways and have it perfectly in time both ways.
Any thoughts?
I've been working on a 2.4L (4g64) build, and everything has gone smooth except for the timing. I timed the motor many times following the Mitsu Service manual, however, every single time the timing comes out perfectly. The crank is at TDC when the cams are at TDC.
I'm using a 4g64 belt which I know has an extra tooth, which to me means that the extra tooth would be evenly distributed between each cam gear, thus making up for the extra 6mm of deck height, making the motor time perfectly.
However, I was told that each cam gear should be off 3.75*, but my motor times perfectly.
I've timed other 4g63s without issue, and am following the service manual, so I'm at a complete loss as to why this should be.
It doesn't make sense to me that one could time the same motor two different ways and have it perfectly in time both ways.
Any thoughts?
Last edited by Blue91lx; Jun 11, 2012 at 10:52 AM.
Jun 10, 2012, 08:00 PM
#3
I timed it multiple times and it was perfectly in time.
Jun 10, 2012, 08:35 PM
#5
New question.
I thought that I followed the Service Manual, and because of the belt it would be off at the end of the procedure.
Am I supposed to make the timing on the cam gears off from the beginning?
If my motor is timed perfect right now, which way should I degree the gears to get the motor "in time"? It's in the car and I don't want to pull it all back apart if I don't have to.
I thought that I followed the Service Manual, and because of the belt it would be off at the end of the procedure.
Am I supposed to make the timing on the cam gears off from the beginning?
If my motor is timed perfect right now, which way should I degree the gears to get the motor "in time"? It's in the car and I don't want to pull it all back apart if I don't have to.
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Jun 11, 2012, 10:41 AM
#8
My thought process is this:
If 6mm = 1 full tooth of timing (hence the 3.75* split between each cam gear), then the extra tooth of the 4g64 belt over the 4g63 belt would technically put the motor perfectly in time, as the belt compensates for the added deck height.
Lower Timing cover is on, but I timed it over 30 times and spun it through at least 6 times every time, so I'm 100% positive that this is when the crank is at TDC, as this is how it ended up every time after I spun it through.
If 6mm = 1 full tooth of timing (hence the 3.75* split between each cam gear), then the extra tooth of the 4g64 belt over the 4g63 belt would technically put the motor perfectly in time, as the belt compensates for the added deck height.
Lower Timing cover is on, but I timed it over 30 times and spun it through at least 6 times every time, so I'm 100% positive that this is when the crank is at TDC, as this is how it ended up every time after I spun it through.
Jun 11, 2012, 10:47 AM
#10
All of said marks are worn off, so I didn't take a picture. It was in time before I put it on. I rotated it through ample times, and it stayed perfectly in time. After doing this so many times I put the lower timing cover on and figured it had to be right if I came out with the same outcome every time.
I just need to hear from someone who actually used a 64 belt that can give me advice. The last time I posted a thread like this my timing was perfectly right but the only thing people wanted to do was tell me that I timed it wrong. Timing lines up perfectly, I promise
.
I just need to hear from someone who actually used a 64 belt that can give me advice. The last time I posted a thread like this my timing was perfectly right but the only thing people wanted to do was tell me that I timed it wrong. Timing lines up perfectly, I promise
.
Last edited by Blue91lx; Jun 11, 2012 at 11:07 AM.
Jun 11, 2012, 02:18 PM
#11
Welp, I just got word that my theory is correct from a few bigger shops that only use 64 belts on their 2.4Ls.
If you want to use a 64 belt from a 94 Galant, your timing marks will be dead on, and it's correct that way.
So much for every single bull sh*t theory floating around EvoM about using a 64 belt, haha.
It made no sense, anyway, as if a 63 belt is one tooth shorter than the 64 and each cam gear is off a half a tooth, then the extra tooth would make up for the 1/2 tooth gap in both cam gears, making the timing dead on. Seems simple to me.
Still never got why people used 63 belts.
If you want to use a 64 belt from a 94 Galant, your timing marks will be dead on, and it's correct that way.
So much for every single bull sh*t theory floating around EvoM about using a 64 belt, haha.
It made no sense, anyway, as if a 63 belt is one tooth shorter than the 64 and each cam gear is off a half a tooth, then the extra tooth would make up for the 1/2 tooth gap in both cam gears, making the timing dead on. Seems simple to me.
Still never got why people used 63 belts.
Jun 11, 2012, 07:42 PM
#12
Suit yourself... but I will post it one more time for you... if you are using a 63 belt retard the timing 3.75* on both gears, if using a 64 belt advance the gears 3.75*... advance or retard the gears prior to setting the timing... and FYI, pretty sure the fidanza gears you are using are set up on the DSM cam dowel, hole not the evo cam dowel hole...
Jun 11, 2012, 10:24 PM
#14
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posted already in your build thread, posting here just to clarify so you dont make this issue even more confusion for anyone else.
63 belt will put you half a tooth advanced
64 belt will put you half a tooth retarded
If you put your adjustable gears in the dsm dowel hole:
64 belt will line up
63 belt should put you a full tooth advanced, not sure what happened with yours there
k, can I get freddie or another pro to validate this??
63 belt will put you half a tooth advanced
64 belt will put you half a tooth retarded
If you put your adjustable gears in the dsm dowel hole:
64 belt will line up
63 belt should put you a full tooth advanced, not sure what happened with yours there
k, can I get freddie or another pro to validate this??
Jun 11, 2012, 10:42 PM
#15
Suit yourself... but I will post it one more time for you... if you are using a 63 belt retard the timing 3.75* on both gears, if using a 64 belt advance the gears 3.75*... advance or retard the gears prior to setting the timing... and FYI, pretty sure the fidanza gears you are using are set up on the DSM cam dowel, hole not the evo cam dowel hole...
posted already in your build thread, posting here just to clarify so you dont make this issue even more confusion for anyone else.
63 belt will put you half a tooth advanced
64 belt will put you half a tooth retarded
If you put your adjustable gears in the dsm dowel hole:
64 belt will line up
63 belt should put you a full tooth advanced, not sure what happened with yours there
k, can I get freddie or another pro to validate this??
63 belt will put you half a tooth advanced
64 belt will put you half a tooth retarded
If you put your adjustable gears in the dsm dowel hole:
64 belt will line up
63 belt should put you a full tooth advanced, not sure what happened with yours there
k, can I get freddie or another pro to validate this??
Also, explain to me this:
You use a 63 belt, and it's a tooth short, so it is evenly distributed between the two cam gears.
You then look at a 64 belt which has ONE extra tooth. ONE tooth evenly distributed would be HALF a tooth between each cam gear, so it would put the timing marks to the right one half a tooth (3.75*) on each cam gear.
The belt would have to be two teeth longer for the 64 belt to be 3.75* advanced.
You see what I'm saying?
Last edited by Blue91lx; Jun 11, 2012 at 11:00 PM.