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View Poll Results: FP Red or BBK
FP Red 192 47.88%
BBK 181 45.14%
Other turbo, please specify 28 6.98%
Voters: 401. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Nov 23, 2009, 04:46 PM   #1
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POLL: FP Red or BBK

***NOV 2011 UPDATE: Back from Afghanistan! Went with BBK Full. Results in link below.
CBRD BBK Full - 418whp/351wtq, 93 octane

You read the title. Going to do turbo upgrade this spring and not sure if I want FP Red or BBK. Heard great things about both, and just trying to get everyone's opinions on everything. I know this has been covered probably before but a poll hasn't been done (I searched).

Along with the FP Red/BBK turbo, I'm going to do FP 18 or 25psi wastegate, Shearer O2 dump, Shearer manifold, Forge RS BOV and 780-880cc injectors. Anything else you think I need let me know, and I will look into it.

Goals are 400whp, 400wtq on Mustang Dyno or 450+whp and 425+wtq on Dynojet. I will not use meth, E85, c16, etc. I will only be using straight 93 octane pump gas. Thanks all.

Current Mods are:
Greddy Full Titanium Exhaust
DC Sports Downpipe/Test Pipe
Greddy 264/264 Cams
AMS FMIC
ACT HD-TTP 6-Puck Clutch Kit
XACT Streetlite Flywheel
Injen Upper/Lower Intercooler Piping
Injen Intake
TTP/Megan O2 Housing
Walbro 255lhp Fuel Pump
ARP Head Studs
Hallman PRO RX MBC 26psi taper to 20.5(ish)
stock ix turbo
stock injectors
stock exhaust/intake manifold
no porting
364whp/358wtq on TTP's Mustang Dyno

Future Mods with Upgraded Turbo will be:
Shearer/Full Race Exhaust Manifold
Shearer O2 Dump
880cc + injectors
Forge RS BOV
If I do FP Red, I'll use 25psi wastegate, if I do BBK it will be their wastegate (obviously)

30NOV2009 - EDIT: Original goals were "450whp, 430wtq on Mustang Dyno and 480+whp and 450+wtq on Dynojet" but after some more research, on 93 octane, this is probably unrealistic.

29DEC2009 - EDIT: So I'm getting deployed in September 2010 so a turbo upgrade MAY be out of the question until I get back. Don't really want to do the upgrade and have the car sit for all that time only a few months after it does in. That said, I'm going to wait and see what's out from CBRD and FP in the spring/summer before I go I may buy it and have it sit in the box for when I get back . This thread however, is a very good source of information for BOTH turbos and shoudn't be deleted. Thanks!

NOV 2011 UPDATE: Back from Afghanistan! Went with BBK Full. Results in link below.
CBRD BBK Full - 418whp/351wtq, 93 octane
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BMW Dinan M3 E92... ///M Power!
EVO IX SE (SOLD) - CBRD BBK - AMS - Exedy - GSC - JM Fabrications - DC Sports - GReddy - ETS - Perrin
PTE - ShepTrans - Robi Spec - Synapse - ARP - Defi - Innovate - DBA - Hawk - NRG - Sparco - Walbro
CBRD BBK Full - 422whp - 359wtq - 93 octane - 25.8psi - CBRD Mustang Dyno

Last edited by mitsuevo803; Nov 21, 2011 at 07:34 PM.
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 04:56 PM   #2
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BBK with the standard WGA (wastegate actuator). Great, reliable, turbo capable of holding plenty of boost with the stock WGA. Get a nice porting/coating job on the turbine housing and look into a ported intake manifold and throttle body.

You can also look into the FP HTA Green which is FP's answer to the BBK and what they're calling the ultimate pump gas turbo (like CBRD claims about the BBK).

Last edited by Kracka; Nov 23, 2009 at 05:04 PM.
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 05:18 PM   #3
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Price wise, the HTA Green is as much as the Red almost....so why not get the Red? And for the stock WGA, you think the one with the BBK will hold 23-25psi at redline?
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EVO IX SE (SOLD) - CBRD BBK - AMS - Exedy - GSC - JM Fabrications - DC Sports - GReddy - ETS - Perrin
PTE - ShepTrans - Robi Spec - Synapse - ARP - Defi - Innovate - DBA - Hawk - NRG - Sparco - Walbro
CBRD BBK Full - 422whp - 359wtq - 93 octane - 25.8psi - CBRD Mustang Dyno
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 05:51 PM   #4
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I'm not sure your going to make your power goals with those cams they are too mild. You need big boy cams to make the power you seek. Also I'm not a BBK expert but if you look at my sig you will see how much power I made with the Red on 93 it actually made more but we also had 5 counts of knock at 480hp so 469 was perfect
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Stock Block and Head

FP Red 80mm
Kelford 272's
Beehive Springs
Precision 1k injectors
EPM 02 Dump
ETS 3.5" IC Kit
APS BOV
PPI Extreme Ported Hotside, Exhaust Mani, Intake Mani, and TB
469@28psi on 93


Old setup
Stock Evo 8 Turbo
322.7 whp 320tq 21.5 psi on 93 oct
355.8 whp 430tq 25 psi on c16
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 05:56 PM   #5
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I would go for the red. I like the quicker spool up and for you goal the red would hold out. Be careful with the stock internals. I would also look into 272 - 280 cams.
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 06:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoRob22 View Post
I would go for the red. I like the quicker spool up and for you goal the red would hold out. Be careful with the stock internals. I would also look into 272 - 280 cams.
Kelfords 272's, GSC S2, FP FR4 cams, or Cossie M2. Those are the only cames I would go with. Not all 272's will get the power you need. HKS 272 and 280's are just as mild as the Greddy cams
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"When pistons melt tuners call that fat fingers"

Stock Block and Head

FP Red 80mm
Kelford 272's
Beehive Springs
Precision 1k injectors
EPM 02 Dump
ETS 3.5" IC Kit
APS BOV
PPI Extreme Ported Hotside, Exhaust Mani, Intake Mani, and TB
469@28psi on 93


Old setup
Stock Evo 8 Turbo
322.7 whp 320tq 21.5 psi on 93 oct
355.8 whp 430tq 25 psi on c16
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 06:18 PM   #7
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is it just me or does ttp mustang dyno seem to read a bit high for the mods listed? have seen other cars they have done and thought similar..
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 06:19 PM   #8
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Its going to be tough to get 450 on a real dyno on pump with either turbo . Stop worrying about numbers.
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 06:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvoRob22 View Post
I would go for the red. I like the quicker spool up and for you goal the red would hold out. Be careful with the stock internals. I would also look into 272 - 280 cams.
+1 on watching those stock internals. I read you should steer away from going past 425 wtq on stock internals. I feel your undecisiveness on which turbo to get. I have spoke with other tuners on the board and most seem to feel that the RED is a good option due to the fact there is always room to step up the game if you get needy for more power. These turbos seem to make the same power psi for psi but the Red out shines the BBK over 28 psi. BBk has earlier spool and good transient response. I also like the fact there are minimal turbo failures on these turbos but I don't think there pushed as hard as the REDS. All in all there both good and I don't think you can go wrong with either. If your weiry on a slightly slower spool get the BBK otherwise the RED.
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 06:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali2MDevo8 View Post
Its going to be tough to get 450 on a real dyno on pump with either turbo . Stop worrying about numbers.
I see you are parting out your car? How was the BBk for you? Are you involved in any road racing etc.???
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 06:23 PM   #11
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Wait until that BBK Beta comes out it looks like a competitor!
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 06:39 PM   #12
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+1 on watching those stock internals. I read you should steer away from going past 425 wtq on stock internals. I feel your undecisiveness on which turbo to get. I have spoke with other tuners on the board and most seem to feel that the RED is a good option due to the fact there is always room to step up the game if you get needy for more power. These turbos seem to make the same power psi for psi but the Red out shines the BBK over 28 psi. BBk has earlier spool and good transient response. I also like the fact there are minimal turbo failures on these turbos but I don't think there pushed as hard as the REDS. All in all there both good and I don't think you can go wrong with either. If your weiry on a slightly slower spool get the BBK otherwise the RED.
Oh boy here you go my #1 worry wart. If you your tuner knows what they are doing then your internals will be fine. 469 no problems with my car.
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"When pistons melt tuners call that fat fingers"

Stock Block and Head

FP Red 80mm
Kelford 272's
Beehive Springs
Precision 1k injectors
EPM 02 Dump
ETS 3.5" IC Kit
APS BOV
PPI Extreme Ported Hotside, Exhaust Mani, Intake Mani, and TB
469@28psi on 93


Old setup
Stock Evo 8 Turbo
322.7 whp 320tq 21.5 psi on 93 oct
355.8 whp 430tq 25 psi on c16
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 06:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBallz View Post
Oh boy here you go my #1 worry wart. If you your tuner knows what they are doing then your internals will be fine. 469 no problems with my car.
I don't like to take chances with a 20K car myself . Good luck with your decision. I personally think you have some more modding to do myself before you go for over 400 torque. Like stated above look for 272 - 280 cams. There are plenty of threads that will give you great opinions on which ones to get. I would also be building the bottom end myself.
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 07:21 PM   #14
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Price wise, the HTA Green is as much as the Red almost....so why not get the Red? And for the stock WGA, you think the one with the BBK will hold 23-25psi at redline?
The stock WGA on the BBK will hold 25psi to redline no problemo, wait for Scheides to pop his head in here and I'm sure he'll post his boost profile plots.

As for the HTA Green vs. the Red it all depends what you want more of, low-end response or top-end pull? Both are good turbos but are aimed at different things. I just figured since you're looking at the BBK the HTA Green would also be worthy of a look since they're the direct competitors. You really can't go wrong with the BBK though, its proven to be just as durable as the stock turbos with torque coming on sooner than with the Red.
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 07:29 PM   #15
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Oh boy here you go my #1 worry wart. If you your tuner knows what they are doing then your internals will be fine. 469 no problems with my car.
Okay Mr. I know everything! If you actually read what I posted you would realize that I am talking about torque not HP! Maybe you should ask Junior about that since HE was the one of the tuners that told me that torque is what causes internals to sh&t the bed . I guess since your tune is so special you have nothing to worry about...

p.s. If you look at your tune your not really close to the threshold so your "tune" is isn't aggressive enough to be concerned. Hp number don't mean much...

Last edited by EriCS; Nov 23, 2009 at 07:32 PM.
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Old Nov 23, 2009, 07:29 PM
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