Please Read Timing Belt Came through cover - Page 2

PPM · Oct 23, 2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barneyb

The best mechanic on earth couldn't have know the engine was going to toss that gear. As it is you are going to need an overhaul. The car was losing power and then the oil light comes on - isn't that sweet. Why didn't Mitsubishi save some more money and just leave the light off of the car?

DSM's used to throw the nut on the oil pump sprocket once in a while. It was common practice, although I never did do it, to loc-tight the threads and retorque the nut at belt time. Maybe that is a practice that needs to return.

True that. so that is the oil pump sprocket? I thought so but couldn't find my documentation to prove it.

Thanks a bunch guys.

jimib · Oct 24, 2009, 12:53 AM

Check these threads out...

oil pump walked in housing

Blue timing belt warning.

TTP Engineering · Oct 24, 2009, 01:07 AM

None of those threads will help. The engine is done. the oil pump sprocket fell off, pistons hit valves, oil pressure went to zero and it totally screwed. We always red loctite that nut as oil can come through the threads.

jimib · Oct 24, 2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTP Engineering

None of those threads will help. The engine is done. the oil pump sprocket fell off, pistons hit valves, oil pressure went to zero and it totally screwed. We always red loctite that nut as oil can come through the threads.

Well, I wasn't insinuating that reading those threads would magically make his engine healthy...

From looking at his pics, I thought I would point him to a couple threads that could perhaps shed some light on why it happened, for future reference.

I would not use red loctite on that nut ever. I have used red loctite on that nut once. Wont do it again. Pulled all of the threads off the nut. Luckily the shaft threads were ok. I would suggest a lighter duty loctite.

Also, not to pick your post apart or anything, but lets not scare the guy too bad. It is of course possible that he is looking at a complete rebuild but not definite. We have all seen tbelt breaks with no bent valves, and we dont know how long it was ran with no oil psi.

Not a write off yet.

MRfabolous · Oct 24, 2009, 02:06 AM

which nut are we talking about when talking about loctite, got a pic for a good reference.

TTP Engineering · Oct 24, 2009, 08:43 AM

If the car was running when he heard the nut fall off which is what he explained, then its done.

lemmysports2 · Oct 24, 2009, 08:56 AM

sounds like what happened to me, my tensioner **** the bed.
dont start the car anymore, the ticking you hear is your valves hitting your pistons. take your head off and check for bent valves and at the very least change all your timing belt components. good luck

lemmy's 4g63 build so far..

jimib · Oct 25, 2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTP Engineering

If the car was running when he heard the nut fall off which is what he explained, then its done.

No that does not mean that. Certainly it COULD be "done".

JohnBradley · Oct 25, 2009, 11:46 PM

I am sorry but it doesnt take long for a 4G63 to go away, 30 seconds or less. They will slam valves immediately if they jump time more than 2 teeth. I have had 5 oil pressure issue cars in the shop in the last 4 months and all of them were indeed done. None of them ran longer 30 seconds with no oil pressure, none of them survived.

I would be as surprised as if I won the lottery if this motor is still good. I am not being heartless, just being realistic.

...That being said I really do hope the best for the OP.

jimib · Oct 26, 2009, 12:31 AM

Im not talking about bent valves. It is highly likely that it bent valves in this case. Just not all tbelt problems result in bent valves. Not to mention, bent valves is not "done". Once the head is off the car that could be fixed in a half hour if a full rebuild is not wanted.

The oil psi. I was not trying to argue with anyone, just trying to give the o.p. some hope. Before he makes any assumptions I would pull rod caps and look at the bearings. I know a 4g63 that made a pass with out an oil filter and the motor was fine after it was discovered and oil was added.

Being a member on many race teams in just about every sportsman class in nhra, I have seen every kind of abuse accidentally and knowingly induced on an engine. If I have reviewed logs that had 0 psi of oil pressure 700ft in to multiple runs in a row, in a 3000hp car with bearings that looked fine after each pass, I think it is worth the o.p. investigating before assuming the engine is "done".

But you have had 5 cars that had completely spontaneous oil pressure problems, that went from normal to 0psi instantly? And you know that none of them were ran for longer than 30 seconds? There are only a couple scenarios that would cause this. One that stops the pump from spinning. Since the cam gears are on the same belt, its not likely the car would run for 30 seconds anyway... Some sort of blockage. Or the oil pump breaking i.e. one of the (internal) gears breaking. The pick up breaking. Which I have never seen on a 4g63. I have certainly seen oiling problems in 4g63s, but they are usually gradual such as the clearance wearing in the oil pump housing etc.

I have been a member here for years, but do not post that often. Please do not think that I am trying to argue with you. Just stating opinions.

JohnBradley · Oct 26, 2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimib

But you have had 5 cars that had completely spontaneous oil pressure problems, that went from normal to 0psi instantly? And you know that none of them were ran for longer than 30 seconds? There are only a couple scenarios that would cause this. One that stops the pump from spinning. Since the cam gears are on the same belt, its not likely the car would run for 30 seconds anyway... Some sort of blockage. Or the oil pump breaking i.e. one of the (internal) gears breaking. The pick up breaking. Which I have never seen on a 4g63. I have certainly seen oiling problems in 4g63s, but they are usually gradual such as the clearance wearing in the oil pump housing etc.

First I want to say that I do respect your opinion and your experience. I know you have been on here awhile as I have as well.

I have seen spun filters on DSMs not kill bearings or if they did not finish off the motor. Evos seem to be a little more high strung and not so forgiving. I know you arent arguing I am just saying what I have seen based on this summer alone.

2 had seized oil pumps as the root cause (one was bad out of the box). 2 were involved in a crash and lost oil through the oil cooler. I was later told those "only" ran for a short time (minute or less) but they had galled the cams in the head, ruined the thrusts (including the block side), and toasted the crank. One was a Evo that lost a pump during the pass and made it halfway back the return road before it had junked everything.

I am just saying 5 miles is a long time for an engine, especially one that he is describing as seizing in the last mile it was run.

Maybe this one had duralube, microlon, and Castrol Syntech in it and it will be okay (which I hope is the case). I have just seen a few that didnt pull through and ended up DOA.

aaron

PPM · Nov 2, 2009, 11:40 AM

I truly don't think my motor is toast. If it is I will rebuild it with an AMS 2.0 block. If it is just the head I will go with AMS for that too. I have cams that needed to be put in (Kelford 272's) anyway that have been sitting in my garage by my ARP headstuds for a while now. I have been drooling over the potential HP gains anyway. Since I wrecked the car 2 months ago I need to replace the front and rear fenders and rear door so a total rebuild would be in order. It would probably take up the better part of a year unless I hit the lottery though.

EricJ@AMS · Nov 2, 2009, 06:06 PM

Your oil pump pulley nut definitely came loose and the pulley flew off. Those nuts do not come loose unless they are under tightened. As a matter of fact, I don't loctite anything on a car with the exception of a few bolts like the Exedy Twin/triple covers because they specificly say to do so.

Did you remove that nut for any reason when you did the timing belt job?

I would say the motor has bent valves at the least. Its extremely rare for the valves not to hit. It usually happens when the cogs of the belt strip off around the crank pulley, belt stays on and tensioned, and the cams happened to stop at TDC and the person gets VERY lucky. It happened to a 1g at work a few weeks ago, car ran perfect after a new belt. I've seen that happen maybe 3 times in 10 years.

bostonhatcher · Nov 2, 2009, 06:16 PM

EXACT same thing happened to my buddy who bought his car from a used car dealership. Had 35k on the car. The dealer said that they just had a shop rebuild the whole motor. He purchased it and an hour later we heard the clunk and we both looked at each other. We kept driving and about 5 mins later the car would still run but the o.p. light would flicker. Then it threw the belt. The shop didn't tighten the oil sprocket nut and it worked through the timing belt cover. I rebuilt the head for him and the car ran perfect for 250 miles then spun a rod bearing. Replaced the shortblock and it's ran great ever since. He just went up to ams a few weeks ago for a tune and the car put down 347 whp and they said it was the second highest stock turbo 8 they've had on the dyno.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Rebuild the whole motor first time around.

ModenaTwinTurbo · Nov 2, 2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricJ@AMS

Your oil pump pulley nut definitely came loose and the pulley flew off. Those nuts do not come loose unless they are under tightened. As a matter of fact, I don't loctite anything on a car with the exception of a few bolts like the Exedy Twin/triple covers because they specificly say to do so.

Did you remove that nut for any reason when you did the timing belt job?

I would say the motor has bent valves at the least. Its extremely rare for the valves not to hit. It usually happens when the cogs of the belt strip off around the crank pulley, belt stays on and tensioned, and the cams happened to stop at TDC and the person gets VERY lucky. It happened to a 1g at work a few weeks ago, car ran perfect after a new belt. I've seen that happen maybe 3 times in 10 years.

yeah same here i dont loctite anything ever in my life. the one crank pulley that fell off of a motor that i did a timing belt on 7 years ago came off because i left it loose.

how ever i am not insinuating i am some Eric@ams by quoting him hehehe.

but yeah, maybe you put a 14mm wrench on it cuz u were a tooth off advanced when doing the belt and you wanted to pull it back just the pump gear maybeee????? <-----huge longshot. but i'm curious to know why it came off.

Eddie Rosado