Larger diameter intake systems?

[coastevo]

Anyone familiar with larger diameter intake systems? I was looking into what it would take to swap to an 80mm starting with wither the upper or lower IC pipe. I know there are some intake manifolds and TB's available at 80mm so I would think it would just be a matter of modifying the outlet/inlet on the IC and getting some 80mm piping in there. But, what kind of benefits would one expect from this and would it be worth the effort and expense? Especialy not shooting for over maybe 550-650whp.

AMS makes a nice twin rail intake manifold yuo can see here:
http://www.nyxracing.com/ams-twin-ra...7-p-54377.html

Basically would be modifying the inlet section on that or a similar manifold and bolting on a 80mm TB and the 80mm piping.

I just wonder if it's really gonna be worth the effort on a street evo at all (I think the benefits in a full-drag car would be a different issue entirely).

[Chabada15]

only needed for big turbo, big power, otherwise its pressure loss and lack of response

[coastevo]

thank you,

I guess a GT3076 doesn't really fall into that "big turbo" category, haha. What about just the twin rail intake and a port matched TB? Stock diameter piping and all that left alone. Would be mostly for a switch to E95 (would be cranking up the boost for the ethanol switch) and a full set of 1000cc injectors (since the 1600's from what I've heard are a B**** to tune). Would be a AEM EMS running the twin rail injectors.

[Chabada15]

you wouldnt need 2 rails either unless your running out of fuel, a walbro with 1200cc injectors ,maybe an upgraded fuel rail, would be more then enough for your power goals fuel wise

if its an AEM tune then you should go to an accomplished tuner and any accomplished tuner should be able to dial in a set of 1200's, people use them along with 1000's on a regular basis, idk who told you that you would need so much fuel

if you want a good setup for the street/track you can do ported intake manifold or a wilson v1-3 intake manifold, mate that with a 65mm throttle body from milspec/buschur/anyone, do that with short route intercooler piping and a 3.5in core and you will have great response with a much larger power potential

if you really want power go with a stage 3 head, buschurs is the cheapest and ive seen it work time and time again, im not siding with any vendors, just telling how it is, a race head will provide HUGE gains over stock allowing you to run more timing and increasing the Volumetric Efficiency of the engine, and anyone who knows about engines can tell you if you increase the VE you increase your power

any other questions?

[coastevo]

The reason for the twin rails would be the switch to ethanol and increased boost. But, I could probably get by with 1200's I suppose; especially with a good rail and pump.

thank you

[turbo addict]

Originally Posted by coastevo

The reason for the twin rails would be the switch to ethanol and increased boost. But, I could probably get by with 1200's I suppose; especially with a good rail and pump.

thank you

You are going to max out the pump way before you do the injectors. I have a friend that have the bluemax 1650cc on his built 2g and the car runs great, drive around is like stock. Unless you really want a ton of power where you are maxing out 1650cc you really dont need a dual rail.

[fromWRXtoEVO]

Originally Posted by coastevo

Anyone familiar with larger diameter intake systems? I was looking into what it would take to swap to an 80mm starting with wither the upper or lower IC pipe. I know there are some intake manifolds and TB's available at 80mm so I would think it would just be a matter of modifying the outlet/inlet on the IC and getting some 80mm piping in there. But, what kind of benefits would one expect from this and would it be worth the effort and expense? Especialy not shooting for over maybe 550-650whp.

AMS makes a nice twin rail intake manifold yuo can see here:
http://www.nyxracing.com/ams-twin-ra...7-p-54377.html

Basically would be modifying the inlet section on that or a similar manifold and bolting on a 80mm TB and the 80mm piping.

I just wonder if it's really gonna be worth the effort on a street evo at all (I think the benefits in a full-drag car would be a different issue entirely).

This is a sword of double edge, over do it and you can loose power/torque/spool up.

I did a JMF intake manifold on my GSX, absolutely no other mods added. Took the car to the dyno and gained 26whp/20lb-tq above 6000 rpm and gained an average of 11whp through the entire band. Not a single point in which I lost any torque or hp, in fact, my spool up decreased by about 200rpm and to put the icing on the cake I gained one full PSI.

I choose the correct bolt-on but again, be very carefull to match your parts, somethimes you might lose power adding stuff(it have happened to me many times over many cars over many years). I wouldn't do that manifold unless you are running a lot of boost .

Carlos

[Chabada15]

Originally Posted by turbo addict

You are going to max out the pump way before you do the injectors. I have a friend that have the bluemax 1650cc on his built 2g and the car runs great, drive around is like stock. Unless you really want a ton of power where you are maxing out 1650cc you really dont need a dual rail.

thats what im saying, you will need an in-tank double pumper fuel pump setup long before you need 2 rails...or the addition 4 injectors they will feed, or the manifold designed to accept those injectors....

[coastevo]

This all makes good sense. So, lets say you've got a gt30 and the AMS kit along with, a nice set of street cams (GSC S1's maybe), a descent FMIC, 800cc injectors, and a 3" catback with the Cat eliminated, all making about 400hp. Do you all think that a buschur bored intake manifold and throttle body would help the whole power band out, not just top-end? I realize this is a specific question and I'm looking for a generalized answer, but just make gues'timate I suppose.

[tonyroma]

Originally Posted by coastevo

Do you all think that a buschur bored intake manifold and throttle body would help the whole power band out, not just top-end? ...just make gues'timate I suppose.

Here's a few good reads for ya on intake manifold design.
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=466
http://www.amsperformance.com/pdfs/intakemani.pdf
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=80364

...and I prefer of course the DV/DT intake manifold design - but I'm biased.

Tony

[coastevo]

Originally Posted by tonyroma

Here's a few good reads for ya on intake manifold design.
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=466
http://www.amsperformance.com/pdfs/intakemani.pdf
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=80364

...and I prefer of course the DV/DT intake manifold design - but I'm biased.

Tony

Thank you. Some awesome info in those; allthough a lot seemed to be very much over my head.

"Remember that the area of a circle (your TB bore) is pi x radius squared and the diameter = 2 x radius. If you calculate your TB's area and then multiply it by 1.33, you will determine the intake's area. Then, use the area of the circle equation to determine the intake's radius.

Therefore, for example, with a 64mm (plate side bore) TB, the calculated "best" intake diameter is 2.8 in. ID."

That was an interesting way to simplify it a bit. But, I know there's more than just doing that to get "optimal", but still a good start I would imagine.

[huevosrancheros]

Originally Posted by Chabada15

only needed for big turbo, big power, otherwise its pressure loss and lack of response

BEAUTIFULLY ILLUSTRATED