2.4L Twin Scroll HTA turbo setup

[Ted B]

Originally Posted by RevMoto

Also Geoff said that an HTA is a mismatch and wont perform well on a twin scroll.

The HTA turbos increase compressor efficiency relative to the turbine side. Geoff's assertion is that the twinscroll advantage seems to be relative to turbine efficiency with respect to the compressor, so by his estimation, the HTA concept is moving in the wrong direction where twinscroll is concerned. We know the HTA turbos are fine, cleverly engineered pieces, so this estimation pertains to them only in the twinscroll capacity.

Another issue with the 35R sized HTA series is that twinscroll housings in T3 that would possibly fit are on the small side, while the smallest available in T4 are large. It is possible to order a smaller TS T4 housing for a 40R than for a 35R.

However, just for the sake of verification, I am installing a TS T4 HTA86, and will give it a go. If I'm not satisfied with that setup, I'll just move it over to my 2.5L BMW, where spool characteristics will be less of an issue.

[MR Turco]

Originally Posted by Ted B

How? His boost log showed 40psi by 4200rpm, and something like 640 ft/lbs.

WOW!

[Ted B]

Actually, I was wrong. The correct figures are:

753whp - 713 ft/lbs - 40 psi at 4200rpm, tapering to 35 - Q16

Build Details:
2.3L - 1G
9.0 SCR
1991 Unported Cylinder Head
HKS 288/288 cams
1mm Oversize Valves
Garrett GT4088R w/ .96 A/R TS T4
Beyond Redline Performance Prototype IM
2.5” IC Pipes
PTE Large Intercooler
TiAL BOV
FP 4” Intake Pipe
DNP Performance T04 Exhaust Manifold w/ TiAL 44mm Wastegate
JH Racing 3.5” to 3” TBE
Tym Switzer COP Ignition
PTE 1000cc Fuel Injectors
Walboro 255L HP Fuel Pump In-Tank Hardwired, and Walboro 255L HP Pump In-Line Hardwired
AEM EMS

Etc., and so forth . . .

[MR Turco]

Originally Posted by Ted B

Actually, I was wrong. The correct figures are:

753whp - 713 ft/lbs - 40 psi at 4200rpm, tapering to 35 - Q16

That must have been insane, did he ever even have traction?

[Ted B]

He did, and if IIRC, he went through several transmissions.

Anyway, I just posted this to illustrate what is possible with this combination. If there is something else that can deliver those figures, with those spool qualities and with a moderate 8k rpm shift point, I have yet to see it.

In summary:

TS 4088R - We know how well it works (as the case above illustrates)

TS HTA35R Variants - We don't know how well it works. I'll be testing such a setup as soon as FP delivers the turbo.

TS HTA37R - Will spool slower than the TS40R and probably not make up for it up top - old design.

[scheides]

Originally Posted by SickSilverNLow

go with the HTA86 with a .82a/r....that is what i am going with soon.

+1.

[Ted B]

And now for the benefit of those who just ignore the initial post the first time around:

Originally Posted by SwiftEVO

I got a 2.4L with a turbo kit on order from ets. Its a twin scroll t4 ...
Now the reason to go hta and twin scroll is to get the best spool up
All these will be a twin scroll variant.

Any questions?

[SwiftEVO]

Originally Posted by scorke

If your going twin scroll and already have the displacement why not go with a turbo suited to moving more air?

To make 700 on a 35R framed turbo you are going to be pushing it to the ragged edge, Full-Race, TedB, and Mark Shead over on MLR have had lots of good luck going with T4 twin scroll housings, I want to see another one succeed!

With the TS 40R you will have minimally more/ maybe similar spool times with much better transient response because of the twin scroll, also the 40R's just kick ass.

Go to lancer register.co.uk or whateverr the UK sight is and search for MAD developmens, Shead knows his stuff.

Scorke

So you saying that the spool will be similar to a t4 hta35r? I really want a setup to spool faster then the one i had before and make as much or more power. Thanks for the advise scorke.

Originally Posted by Ted B

In a previous discussion, someone demonstrated a 2.3L GT4088R with TS T4 0.94 A/R turbine housing that delivered 750+whp on Q16 and 40psi. Best of all, he needed no more than an 8000rpm shift point to deliver the goods. How? His boost log showed 40psi by 4200rpm, and something like 640 ft/lbs.

Can you equal those results? We don't know, but at least you know that it is within the capability of that turbo combination, so at least you can be assured that will not be the limiting factor.

Does that answer your question?

Ted B I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my thread!

How the heck is he spooling at 4200 is it a special 40r? or just a standard 4088 with a t4 .96 ts exhaust housing? I didnt think that going to a twin scroll would affect the spool that much. Does it help even more with the strokers or something?

Originally Posted by zedevo

@ swiftevo: it gonna ur daily car ???

Yes sir!

--Josh

[Ted B]

Originally Posted by SwiftEVO

How the heck is he spooling at 4200 is it a special 40r? or just a standard 4088 with a t4 .96 ts exhaust housing? I didnt think that going to a twin scroll would affect the spool that much. Does it help even more with the strokers or something?

A 2.4L has 20% more displacement than a 2.0L. That basically means that any given turbo behaves almost as if it were 20% smaller with a 2.4L. This is why a 4088R can be made to spool that quickly. It's a standard 4088R with .96 A/R TS T4 hotside.

When you demonstrate something that can do that, is there any reason to consider something else if 700+whp and quick spool with your 2.4L are your primary goals? Think about it.

If we were considering a 2.0L, I might suggest considering an HTA and TS T4, but again, given the only option of a 1.06 TS T4 with those turbos, no one's done it, and therefore it remains a mystery as to how well or not well it works.

[SwiftEVO]

Originally Posted by Ted B

A 2.4L has 20% more displacement than a 2.0L. That basically means that any given turbo behaves almost as if it were 20% smaller with a 2.4L. This is why a 4088R can be made to spool that quickly. It's a standard 4088R with .96 A/R TS T4 hotside.

When you demonstrate something that can do that, is there any reason to consider something else if 700+whp and quick spool with your 2.4L are your primary goals? Think about it.

If we were considering a 2.0L, I might suggest considering an HTA and TS T4, but again, given the only option of a 1.06 TS T4 with those turbos, no one's done it, and therefore it remains a mystery as to how well or not well it works.

Thanks for your insight ted. Check out this thread Full-Race Twinscroll 40R -- 714hp/646tq on Q16 @ 37psi, 474hp/400tq on 91pump @ 18psi

He's got a 2.4L with a twin scroll 40r and is hitting 37psi at around 4900. Is there something way different with his setup compared to the one you posted?

--Josh

[Ted B]

Ok, but don't forget to read this blurb at the end of the initial post:

Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff

there is a lot of room for further improvement on this setup with very minor changes.

In contrast, the example I quoted has had the benefit of lots of tuning and tweaking time. As with any quoted example, we should always add "YMMV". The purpose is to show what is possible, and has been demonstrated.

[SwiftEVO]

Originally Posted by Ted B

Ok, but don't forget to read this blurb at the end of the initial post:



In contrast, the example I quoted has had the benefit of lots of tuning and tweaking time. As with any quoted example, we should always add "YMMV". The purpose is to show what is possible, and has been demonstrated.

Thanks for your help I just changed my order to a 40r!

--Josh

[Ted B]

Let us know how it goes when you get it together. Be sure to chime in with any other questions regarding the engine setup so you can be assured of putting your best foot forward the first time.

[Whoop_ass]

you cant go wrong with a 40r...
I am running one and over the moon with it's spool and transient response.

Like TedB says make sure all your supporting mods are right and will work well together.

[SwiftEVO]

Well my mods are;

2.4 Block, Manley I beam rods, Weisco 9:1 Pistons, 4g64 Crank , Arp main, L19 head, and rod studs, Crower spring and retainers, Ferrea 1mm over intake and exhaust valves, Buschur BF272 Cams, Alky kit, Niesi FMIC, 1000cc injectors, AEM Ems, speed density tuned, AMS Fuel rail, 65mm bored stock tb, Dual walbro inline pump with braided steel lines, Aeromotive FPR, Okada coils, Koyo Radiator , Full 3in exhaust, Turbosmart E-boost 2 60psi model, Innovate wideband lc1 with xd16

Made around 580whp on pump and meth @28psi on the pt 67mm.Ive been running this motor for over 2years now.