end all 2.3 2.4 2.1 stroker big block thread
Sep 28, 2007, 07:03 PM
#1
end all 2.3 2.4 2.1 2.2 stroker big block thread
ok so i'd like to make an end all 2.3 2.4 2.1 2.2 stroker big block thread.
right now i'm just gathering a lot of posts from a lot of different threads, trying to consolidate them. i'd like to thank the people i'm quoting in advance. i'd also like everyone to contribute as much information as they have, however technical.
basics first!
Stock motor
4g63 2.0 specifications
block: 4G63
bore: 85mm
stroke: 88mm
deck height: 0mm
piston cross sectional area: ~5675mm^2,
overall displacement: 1.99L
rod length: 149.86
rod/stroke ratio: 1.71
piston speed:
88mm stroke at 8200rpm is 24.1 m/s
88mm stroke at 8500rpm is 24.9 m/s
88mm stroke at 8863rpm is 26.0 m/s
rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
right now i'm just gathering a lot of posts from a lot of different threads, trying to consolidate them. i'd like to thank the people i'm quoting in advance. i'd also like everyone to contribute as much information as they have, however technical.
basics first!
Stock motor
4g63 2.0 specifications
block: 4G63
bore: 85mm
stroke: 88mm
deck height: 0mm
piston cross sectional area: ~5675mm^2,
overall displacement: 1.99L
rod length: 149.86
rod/stroke ratio: 1.71
piston speed:
88mm stroke at 8200rpm is 24.1 m/s
88mm stroke at 8500rpm is 24.9 m/s
88mm stroke at 8863rpm is 26.0 m/s
rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
Last edited by trinydex; Oct 12, 2007 at 10:03 AM.
Sep 28, 2007, 07:05 PM
#2
by far the most interesting stroker first!
FYI the 4g63 and 4g64 can interchange many parts. the blocks are both the same more or less except for bore difference and deck height difference.
4g64 2.4 "big block" "stroker"
4g64 2.4 specifications
block: 4g64
bore: 86.5mm (bore is dictated by the piston/block selection)
stroke: 100mm (stroke is dictated by crank)
deck height: 6mm
cross sectional area of piston: ~5877mm^2
overall displacement: ~2.35L
rod length: 150mm (most of the time)
rod/stroke ratio: 1.5:1
piston speed:
100mm stroke at 7200rpm is 24.0 m/s
100mm stroke at 7500rpm is 25.0 m/s
100mm stroke at 7800rpm is 26.0 m/s
rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
---sources---
companies: you can get products from any number of 4g63 tuners. road race service, magnus, buschur racing, automotosports, jackson auto machine etc.
pistons: wiesco makes them among others... i can't name them all, if you have a suggestion i'll add it.
cranks: mitsu uses a 100mm crank. crower uses a 102mm crank. any other cranks i'll gladly add them.
rods:
the magnus long rod 2.4 uses 156mm rod (fancy fancy!)
blocks: you need a 7 bolt block. 3g eclise will work. lancer ralliart 2.4 mivec sohc will work. any more to add let me know.
head gasket: cometic makes customs. any other info here let me know.
---concerns---
oil squirters: a long debated topic, here are the two extremes
water pump: you need a 4g64 water pump or an evo pump with an adapter. magnus sells adapters.
timing belt: you CANNOT USE an evo, normal galant, 4g63 SOHC, 4g64 SOHC belt. you NEED a DOHC timing belt, one that is longer than a 4g63 belt because the 4g64 has more deck height. this can be sourced from a variety of places. 1994 Galant GS, hyundai sonata? anyway the PART NUMBER IS md182292.
cam gears: you need 4g63 ADJUSTABLE cam gears. the increased deck height skews the "0" setting on the gears. you need to be able to dial this out. OR you could do things the "right" way and get your cams degreed.
coolant/passages: these all line up.
head gasket: if you don't find the stock 4g64 up to snuff you may have to get a custom one.
rev limit: not an all revealing discussion but points to consider when choosing rev limit.
FYI the 4g63 and 4g64 can interchange many parts. the blocks are both the same more or less except for bore difference and deck height difference.
4g64 2.4 "big block" "stroker"
4g64 2.4 specifications
block: 4g64
bore: 86.5mm (bore is dictated by the piston/block selection)
stroke: 100mm (stroke is dictated by crank)
deck height: 6mm
cross sectional area of piston: ~5877mm^2
overall displacement: ~2.35L
rod length: 150mm (most of the time)
rod/stroke ratio: 1.5:1
piston speed:
100mm stroke at 7200rpm is 24.0 m/s
100mm stroke at 7500rpm is 25.0 m/s
100mm stroke at 7800rpm is 26.0 m/s
rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
when putting the 4g64 crank in the 4g63 block the rod angle changes and the piston speed with the stroked crank goes way up. Both of these put more stress on the crankshaft. I believe if the RPM of a stroked 4g63 engine is kept under 7,500 rpm using the Mitsu crank that it will live for a long period of time.
www.buschurracing.com
www.buschurracing.com
companies: you can get products from any number of 4g63 tuners. road race service, magnus, buschur racing, automotosports, jackson auto machine etc.
pistons: wiesco makes them among others... i can't name them all, if you have a suggestion i'll add it.
cranks: mitsu uses a 100mm crank. crower uses a 102mm crank. any other cranks i'll gladly add them.
rods:
for the most part, with off-the-shelf parts, without breaking the bank, most 2.3's & 2.4's are built using the same length rod, ~150mm in length / 5.90".
the piston pin height is different when using a 100mm stroke in either a 4g63 or
4g64 block.
yeah, you can source out longer rods, utlizing a shorteer pin height in the piston to increase your rod ratio a bit, but it's going to cost quite a bit more.
the piston pin height is different when using a 100mm stroke in either a 4g63 or
4g64 block.
yeah, you can source out longer rods, utlizing a shorteer pin height in the piston to increase your rod ratio a bit, but it's going to cost quite a bit more.
blocks: you need a 7 bolt block. 3g eclise will work. lancer ralliart 2.4 mivec sohc will work. any more to add let me know.
head gasket: cometic makes customs. any other info here let me know.
---concerns---
oil squirters: a long debated topic, here are the two extremes
They provide cooling which really isn't needed for forged pistons. If you want cooling that bad opt for a rifle fed rod or have the tops of the pistons Swaintech Gold coated.
Also, cooler pistons do nothing in the way of allowing a more aggressive tune. The only thing that would cause a piston to deter a more aggressive tune is if your getting pre-ignition due to a sharp edge or something else on the valve reliefs.
Oil squirters, especially in 4g63's, have a problem at times of sticking open or shut. When you add a squirter your really adding another potential problem to your engine.
I've been building 4g63 stroker motors since 1996, back when we use to stock pistons and flycut down the tops of the pistons. Believe me when I say, avoid at all cost adding any more potential issues to your engine.
Also, cooler pistons do nothing in the way of allowing a more aggressive tune. The only thing that would cause a piston to deter a more aggressive tune is if your getting pre-ignition due to a sharp edge or something else on the valve reliefs.
Oil squirters, especially in 4g63's, have a problem at times of sticking open or shut. When you add a squirter your really adding another potential problem to your engine.
I've been building 4g63 stroker motors since 1996, back when we use to stock pistons and flycut down the tops of the pistons. Believe me when I say, avoid at all cost adding any more potential issues to your engine.
The down side to oil squirters is it robs oil from the main oil galley, which takes oil away form a few very important places 
I have never used oil squirters in any of my personal motors since 1998.
With that being said, I am not saying your average street/strip car should be without them, but they are not needed in the overall scheme of things.
Mike Huml
I have never used oil squirters in any of my personal motors since 1998.
With that being said, I am not saying your average street/strip car should be without them, but they are not needed in the overall scheme of things.
Mike Huml
Always run squirters if the car is street driven. At lower rpms the oil pressure isn't that high so the pistons are not getting sprayed with oil. I would use the squirters in every engine I have. It provided extra cooling, lubricant and insurance, so you see you can't really go wrong by keeping them. I think Mitsubishi put squirters in turbo engines for a good reason. Notice the 2.4 block comes from an n/a car. Also did you notice that an n/a cars engine after an hr of driving is and will never be as hot as a turbo cars engine after 20min. of driving?
There in there for a reason guys! They can also be drilled and fitted into any 2.4 block. My 2.4 runs squirters and balance shafts!
There in there for a reason guys! They can also be drilled and fitted into any 2.4 block. My 2.4 runs squirters and balance shafts!
water pump: you need a 4g64 water pump or an evo pump with an adapter. magnus sells adapters.
the actual dimensions and bolt pattern of the galant/eclipse pump and EVO pump are different, maybe this bracket allows you to use your EVO pump instead of needing a galant/eclipse one. The galant/eclipse also uses 2 accessory belts instead of a single serpentine belt. 1 belt goes around the crank, idler, p/s pump and a/c compressor, the other goes around the crank, alternator and water pump. That could also be a reason for this bracket.
cam gears: you need 4g63 ADJUSTABLE cam gears. the increased deck height skews the "0" setting on the gears. you need to be able to dial this out. OR you could do things the "right" way and get your cams degreed.
head gasket: if you don't find the stock 4g64 up to snuff you may have to get a custom one.
rev limit: not an all revealing discussion but points to consider when choosing rev limit.
Here you are assuming that you will be operating at engine speeds equal to the stock stroke engine. This assumption should not be made. Comparisons should be made with massflow normalized where the stroker is at a large advantage. Engine speed is by far the largest factor since inertial loads increase as a square of it.
Stock 1997cc
Bore---------------------------------------------------- 3.346"
Stroke-------------------------------------------------- 3.464"
Redline------------------------------------------------- 8500 RPM
Volumetric flow at 100% VE*---------------------- 300 CFM
Mean piston speed---------------------------------- 4772 FPM
Peak piston speed----------------------------------- 8035 FPM
Peak piston acceleration [TDC (tension) ]------- 4597 G
Piston acceleration at BDC-------------------------- 2512 G
Stroker 2370cc
Bore---------------------------------------------------- 3.385"
Stroke-------------------------------------------------- 4.016"
Redline------------------------------------------------- 7168 RPM
Volumetric flow at 100% VE*---------------------- 300 CFM
Mean piston speed---------------------------------- 4664 FPM
Peak piston speed----------------------------------- 7996 FPM
Peak piston acceleration [TDC (tension) ]------- 3974 G
Piston acceleration at BDC-------------------------- 1884 G
*100% value for ease of calculation. Flowrate equalized between both examples.
1) Mean piston speed on the 2.0 is higher by 2%
2) Peak piston acceleration on the 2.0 is higher by 16% at TDC, 34% at BDC.
3) Not only is the engine experiencing these higher loads, but it is experiencing them at a rate faster by 18% . Finite cycle life of all components is being used up quicker.
This is true. However, like I have mentioned, there is no need to turn a stroker engine to matching RPM since it has a flow advantage at lower RPM. Equal power, at lower RPM.
Stock 1997cc
Bore---------------------------------------------------- 3.346"
Stroke-------------------------------------------------- 3.464"
Redline------------------------------------------------- 8500 RPM
Volumetric flow at 100% VE*---------------------- 300 CFM
Mean piston speed---------------------------------- 4772 FPM
Peak piston speed----------------------------------- 8035 FPM
Peak piston acceleration [TDC (tension) ]------- 4597 G
Piston acceleration at BDC-------------------------- 2512 G
Stroker 2370cc
Bore---------------------------------------------------- 3.385"
Stroke-------------------------------------------------- 4.016"
Redline------------------------------------------------- 7168 RPM
Volumetric flow at 100% VE*---------------------- 300 CFM
Mean piston speed---------------------------------- 4664 FPM
Peak piston speed----------------------------------- 7996 FPM
Peak piston acceleration [TDC (tension) ]------- 3974 G
Piston acceleration at BDC-------------------------- 1884 G
*100% value for ease of calculation. Flowrate equalized between both examples.
1) Mean piston speed on the 2.0 is higher by 2%
2) Peak piston acceleration on the 2.0 is higher by 16% at TDC, 34% at BDC.
3) Not only is the engine experiencing these higher loads, but it is experiencing them at a rate faster by 18% . Finite cycle life of all components is being used up quicker.
This is true. However, like I have mentioned, there is no need to turn a stroker engine to matching RPM since it has a flow advantage at lower RPM. Equal power, at lower RPM.
Last edited by trinydex; Oct 12, 2007 at 09:35 AM.
Sep 28, 2007, 07:06 PM
#3
4g63 100mm crank stroker 2.3
4g63 2.3 specifications
block: 4G63
bore: 85mm
stroke: 100mm
deck height: 0
piston cross sectional area: ~5675mm^2,
overall displacement: 2.25L
rod length: 150mm
rod/stroke ratio: 1.5:1
piston speed:
100mm stroke at 7200rpm is 24.0 m/s
100mm stroke at 7500rpm is 25.0 m/s
100mm stroke at 7800rpm is 26.0 m/s
rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
--sources--
blocks: mitsubishi 4g63. your blown 2.0 stock block turns into this motor.
cranks: mitsubishi 4g64 or any of the various other remanufactured cranks.
pistons: you need to get 2.3 specific pistons. lots of people make them.
--concerns--
pistons: the piston is less tall because you're increasing stroke without any increased deck height. this clumps certain piston rings together. unless:
rod ratio: possible sidewall loading increase.
rev limit: see what db says above.
4g63 2.3 specifications
block: 4G63
bore: 85mm
stroke: 100mm
deck height: 0
piston cross sectional area: ~5675mm^2,
overall displacement: 2.25L
rod length: 150mm
rod/stroke ratio: 1.5:1
piston speed:
100mm stroke at 7200rpm is 24.0 m/s
100mm stroke at 7500rpm is 25.0 m/s
100mm stroke at 7800rpm is 26.0 m/s
rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
when putting the 4g64 crank in the 4g63 block the rod angle changes and the piston speed with the stroked crank goes way up. Both of these put more stress on the crankshaft. I believe if the RPM of a stroked 4g63 engine is kept under 7,500 rpm using the Mitsu crank that it will live for a long period of time.
www.buschurracing.com
www.buschurracing.com
blocks: mitsubishi 4g63. your blown 2.0 stock block turns into this motor.
cranks: mitsubishi 4g64 or any of the various other remanufactured cranks.
pistons: you need to get 2.3 specific pistons. lots of people make them.
--concerns--
pistons: the piston is less tall because you're increasing stroke without any increased deck height. this clumps certain piston rings together. unless:
I don't want to give any engine building information away but doing a stroker 2 liter doesn't put the rings into any harm Keith. The ring set we use in our stroker is the exact same ring set that is in John's car, exact. We also did not have to move them up any closer than normal to the top. SSHHH, it's all secret
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
rod ratio: possible sidewall loading increase.
Also, the stroker kit is NOT a drop in. The block has to be clearanced for the rods, the #3 cylinder is extremely close no matter what rod you choose and with some the engine will not even turn over.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
rev limit: see what db says above.
Last edited by trinydex; Oct 12, 2007 at 09:29 AM.
Sep 28, 2007, 07:29 PM
#4
4g63 94mm crank stroker 2.2
4g63 2.2 specifications
block: 4G63
bore: 85mm
stroke: 94mm
deck height: 0
piston cross sectional area: ~5675mm^2,
overall displacement: 2.133L
rod length: 156mm (at least for gsc's
rod/stroke ratio: 1.66:1 (at least for gsc's)
piston speed:
94mm stroke at 7800rpm is 24.44 m/s
94mm stroke at 8200rpm is 25.69 m/s
94mm stroke at 8500rpm is 26.63 m/s
rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
--sources--
blocks: mitsubishi 4g63. your blown 2.0 stock block turns into this motor.
cranks: jun, tomei, cosworth, gsc, magnus, jam etc. there's a lot of crank manufacturers.
pistons:
--concerns--
cranks: you're in the world of custom cranks and you need to consider billet, chrome oly, nitrided and all that stuff.
pistons:
4g64 88mm crank DEstroker 2.1
4g64 2.1 specifications
block: 4G64
bore: 86.5mm
stroke: 88mm
deck height: 6mm
piston cross sectional area: ~5877mm^2
overall displacement: 2.068544 L
rod length: 162mm (at least for magnus's)
rod/stroke ratio: 1.84:1 (at least for magnus's)
piston speed:
88mm stroke at 8000rpm is 23.467 m/s
88mm stroke at 8500rpm is 24.93 m/s
88mm stroke at 9000rpm is 26.4 m/s
rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
--sources--
blocks: mitsubishi 4g64.
cranks: stock mitsubishi evo crank does the job on the 4g64 block. many people make stock evo cranks.
pistons:
--concerns--
cranks: if you're in the world of custom cranks and you need to consider billet, chrome oly, nitrided and all that stuff.
pistons:
rev limit: when you're starting to turn really high rpms you need to make sure everything else in the car can function at that speed, not just the pistons/rods. pay attention to accesories, cooling and oiling.
4g63 2.2 specifications
block: 4G63
bore: 85mm
stroke: 94mm
deck height: 0
piston cross sectional area: ~5675mm^2,
overall displacement: 2.133L
rod length: 156mm (at least for gsc's
rod/stroke ratio: 1.66:1 (at least for gsc's)
piston speed:
94mm stroke at 7800rpm is 24.44 m/s
94mm stroke at 8200rpm is 25.69 m/s
94mm stroke at 8500rpm is 26.63 m/s
rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
--sources--
blocks: mitsubishi 4g63. your blown 2.0 stock block turns into this motor.
cranks: jun, tomei, cosworth, gsc, magnus, jam etc. there's a lot of crank manufacturers.
pistons:
--concerns--
cranks: you're in the world of custom cranks and you need to consider billet, chrome oly, nitrided and all that stuff.
pistons:
4g64 88mm crank DEstroker 2.1
4g64 2.1 specifications
block: 4G64
bore: 86.5mm
stroke: 88mm
deck height: 6mm
piston cross sectional area: ~5877mm^2
overall displacement: 2.068544 L
rod length: 162mm (at least for magnus's)
rod/stroke ratio: 1.84:1 (at least for magnus's)
piston speed:
88mm stroke at 8000rpm is 23.467 m/s
88mm stroke at 8500rpm is 24.93 m/s
88mm stroke at 9000rpm is 26.4 m/s
rev limit: whatever you think is safe but you probably don't want a piston going at 26 m/s (or you built your car right and you do)
--sources--
blocks: mitsubishi 4g64.
cranks: stock mitsubishi evo crank does the job on the 4g64 block. many people make stock evo cranks.
pistons:
--concerns--
cranks: if you're in the world of custom cranks and you need to consider billet, chrome oly, nitrided and all that stuff.
pistons:
rev limit: when you're starting to turn really high rpms you need to make sure everything else in the car can function at that speed, not just the pistons/rods. pay attention to accesories, cooling and oiling.
Last edited by trinydex; Oct 12, 2007 at 10:44 PM.
Sep 29, 2007, 03:29 PM
#6
info
As promised, I am going to have a few weights for you today!
Pistons are on the scale now, and will be listed here in a bit. As I get more pistons on the shelf, we will be sure to yank them out of the box and weigh them!
All rods are EVO spec rods.
MGP - high performance, aluminum rod, proven in 1200 plus HP in 4G63T.
Manley 14022-4 - H beam
Eagle CRS5900MB3D - H beam
Stock Evo
Manley 14403-4 - I beam, stock length
Pauter - MIT-220-480-1500F
Manley 14499SB2 - I beam, long rod 162 mm
Mike Huml
Pistons are on the scale now, and will be listed here in a bit. As I get more pistons on the shelf, we will be sure to yank them out of the box and weigh them!
All rods are EVO spec rods.
MGP - high performance, aluminum rod, proven in 1200 plus HP in 4G63T.
Manley 14022-4 - H beam
Eagle CRS5900MB3D - H beam
Stock Evo
Manley 14403-4 - I beam, stock length
Pauter - MIT-220-480-1500F
Manley 14499SB2 - I beam, long rod 162 mm
Mike Huml
As promised, more will come as we have more stock, but here we go... sorry pics are so big, damn IT guy!
Mahle - 85.5 mm 2.3l
Wiseco K596M85 - 85 mm 2.3l
Wiseco K596M855 - 85.5mm 2.3l
Wiseco K596M86 - 86 mm 2.3l
Wiseco Custom 2 - 87 mm 2.1l De-stroke 9:1 HD forging
Wiseco K595M85 - 85 mm 2.0l
Wiseco Cutom 1 - 87 mm 2.1l De-stroke 9:1 standard forging
Wiseco K595M855 - 85.5mm 2.0l
Stock Evo
Mike Huml
Mahle - 85.5 mm 2.3l
Wiseco K596M85 - 85 mm 2.3l
Wiseco K596M855 - 85.5mm 2.3l
Wiseco K596M86 - 86 mm 2.3l
Wiseco Custom 2 - 87 mm 2.1l De-stroke 9:1 HD forging
Wiseco K595M85 - 85 mm 2.0l
Wiseco Cutom 1 - 87 mm 2.1l De-stroke 9:1 standard forging
Wiseco K595M855 - 85.5mm 2.0l
Stock Evo
Mike Huml
Last edited by trinydex; Oct 1, 2007 at 08:39 PM.
Sep 30, 2007, 08:06 AM
#7
There is an error up there. The magnus long rod 2.4 uses 156mm rod not 162. The 162mm is for the long rod 2.1. I was one of the first to use the 156mm Magnus Pauter rods about 4 years ago before Marco redesigned them so there wouldnt be so much interference with the oil galleys.
jeff
jeff
Trending Topics
Oct 1, 2007, 08:57 PM
#8
corrections are welcome. no debating in this thread. if you have an issue PM ME don't mess up this thread.
bump for a big revision... can someone please HELP ME add more info on pistons rods etc, like what can be sourced from where? special considerations.
bump for a big revision... can someone please HELP ME add more info on pistons rods etc, like what can be sourced from where? special considerations.
Last edited by trinydex; Oct 12, 2007 at 10:40 PM.
Oct 12, 2007, 06:27 AM
#9
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Also, the stroker kit is NOT a drop in. The block has to be clearanced for the rods, the #3 cylinder is extremely close no matter what rod you choose and with some the engine will not even turn over.
so, if i get a 4g64 crank.. rods.. and any type of stroker pistons.. am i gonna have to take my block to the machine shop?? i thought it was a drop in, ive seen various threads of 2.3 buildups and non of them required anything like this!
Oct 23, 2007, 11:53 AM
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didnt get this part quite well, can someone explain this??
so, if i get a 4g64 crank.. rods.. and any type of stroker pistons.. am i gonna have to take my block to the machine shop?? i thought it was a drop in, ive seen various threads of 2.3 buildups and non of them required anything like this!
so, if i get a 4g64 crank.. rods.. and any type of stroker pistons.. am i gonna have to take my block to the machine shop?? i thought it was a drop in, ive seen various threads of 2.3 buildups and non of them required anything like this!
Good thread, I just spent the last 3 hrs putting together the info myself. This will save me alot of time next time I forget the numbers.