Twin charging (again)

[EvoTech]

With the popluarity of rear mounted turbo's lately is the vette comunity it got me thinking about a setup for an Evo with a tiny internally gated 16 G TME under the hood and a GT40 in the rear. You set the small turbo to spring pressure of 12 or 14 psi and the let the rear one rip up to 35 psi. Sure there would be a lot of plumbing but we ceratinly have more space to work with than a vette engine compartment. By ditching the muffler their is plenty of room back there for a turbo and plumbing. It could simply return to a custom IC with 2 inlets and 1 outlet. There would have to be some sort of one way valve to prevent boost from bleeding back towards either turbo, but that would not be too big a deal. I am only in the mental stages of this right now, but I may give it a shot down the road. I don't even think that it would be all that expensive to make. No exhaust manifold, just a turbo, a lot of piping, a WG, and a custom intercooler. Of Course this would have to be on a standalone.


Just some crazy ideas that constantly plague my brain!

[Import Junky]

interesting idea.

[badstainless]

Would be a lot of work.

[Evoryder]

$$$

[zbomb]

If you'd searched around on here you would have seen the thread about this car:







There is a large thread on here about it.

[MR. Tim]

+1 for being creative. When i had a Cobalt SS/Supercharged there was all this hype about twincharging. A few people tried it and even fewer succeeded. On paper it sounds good, but for some reason, it just was never really efficient. The only time it was really ever pulled off was when early Toyota MR2's did it. I dont remember the gen. but they came that way from the factory. If you want something that no one else has, or to show, its pretty cool. But for ease of use and efficiency, its not the way to go.

[Big Boost]

Originally Posted by EvoTech

The second idea came from all the rear mounted turbo'd vette's that I saw. Perhaps a tiny internally gated 16 G TME under the hood and a GT40 in the rear. You set the small turbo to spring pressure of 12 or 14 psi and the let the rear one rip up to 35 psi. Sure there would be a lot of plumbing but we ceratinly have more space to work with than a vette engine compartment.


Just some crazy ideas that constantly plague my brain!

If someone was to do this again, I think this would be much better way. Have the 16G in the right off the motor & a 40R, where the muffler is.

When they set-up thes STS turbos on corvettes all you need is an oil pump, voltage, oil line & intercooler piping up to the front of the car, so it not that much more piping vs twin charging with a supercharger.

You could have the 40R intercooler piping lead right into the intercooler.

The question, I would have is once the 40R gets spooled, what do you do with the 16G?. Wouldn't this be too much air for the 16G to handle?

[scorke]

Originally Posted by Big Boost

If someone was to do this again, I think this would be much better way. Have the 16G in the right off the motor & a 40R, where the muffler is.

When they set-up thes STS turbos on corvettes all you need is an oil pump, voltage, oil line & intercooler piping up to the front of the car, so it not that much more piping vs twin charging with a supercharger.

You could have the 40R intercooler piping lead right into the intercooler.

The question, I would have is once the 40R gets spooled, what do you do with the 16G?. Wouldn't this be too much air for the 16G to handle?

You essentially close off the ability for the 16g to get exhuast, think of like a wategate that is just a split.

Scorke

[06EVOIX SE]

Originally Posted by MR. Tim

+1 for being creative. When i had a Cobalt SS/Supercharged there was all this hype about twincharging. A few people tried it and even fewer succeeded. On paper it sounds good, but for some reason, it just was never really efficient. The only time it was really ever pulled off was when early Toyota MR2's did it. I dont remember the gen. but they came that way from the factory. If you want something that no one else has, or to show, its pretty cool. But for ease of use and efficiency, its not the way to go.

i had a SS too, hahn racecraft did it, but didn't make much power

[Big Boost]

Originally Posted by scorke

You essentially close off the ability for the 16g to get exhuast, think of like a wategate that is just a split.

Scorke

So you would have something right above the hotside of the turbo that would route the exhaust air away from the 16G towards the 40R?

Like a buttefly value that would close or partically close to limit the air going through the 16G.

This is where i think it would get complicated, as you would have to have some sort of actuator controlled via the AEM to close at a certain time.

It would be much easier if the smaller turbo, could handle the increased amount of air. Could a Green handle this much air?

They are trying something close to this in the Supra world:

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=455869

See page 14 for initial results.

[Ginglingston11]

Originally Posted by MR. Tim

+1 for being creative. When i had a Cobalt SS/Supercharged there was all this hype about twincharging. A few people tried it and even fewer succeeded. On paper it sounds good, but for some reason, it just was never really efficient. The only time it was really ever pulled off was when early Toyota MR2's did it. I dont remember the gen. but they came that way from the factory. If you want something that no one else has, or to show, its pretty cool. But for ease of use and efficiency, its not the way to go.

correct me if im wrong but i dont think the mr2s came twin charged. they had an available turbo engine or a supercharged engine available

[zbomb]

Lancia Delta S4 Group B cars were both SC and TC. Anyone know of any other race cars combining both technologies?

[homemade wrx]

if serously looking into this, keep in mind the flow rates that each will have to flow...whether you breathe through the supercharger and blow into the turbo or turbo into supercharger...be sure to now be flowing at a rate that will choke the other. The turbo will also need to have a large enough turbine not to choke out the motor. Balance the pressure manifolds. The lower the exhaust, the better.

Forced Air technologies did a twincharge set up on an sti and had a hideous torque curve from it...not sure if there downfall was cams, or choking flow but regardless, they didn't blend the powerband very well.


A sequential turbo system would be quite nice as well...look at how the new ford 6.4L or the 335i is done...they are pretty much ideal. I have my own idea on how to do it and make even faster spool without massive exhaust restrictions in the top end.

[EvoTech]

Originally Posted by zbomb

If you'd searched around on here you would have seen the thread about this car:


There is a large thread on here about it.

I was standing next to that car when the picture was taken and I was in contact with both the builder and owner. So no need to "search"

That car was way too complicated and not enough engineering went into in my opinion. Personally I am interested in the rear mounted turbo idea. If it is internally gated the exhaust will simply flow right by and keep it boosting a mild 14PSI while the big one in the back builds power. Yes it would be a lot of work, but certainly not nearly as complicated as the supercharger and turbo setup. I would build an intercooler with 2 inlets and 1 outlet. There would have to be a check valve off sorts to keep pressure from reversing toward either turbo, but again not too big a deal. Think of all the space that we have where our mufflers are! Ditch the muffler and you can put a big ass turbo no problem. Not saying that I am going to attempt this anytime soon, but I do think it can be done.

[evokel]

thats pretty different