Timing Trim Per Gear
Aug 29, 2011, 08:00 PM
#16
well a global compensation map is obviously a lot nicer than individual gear maps:
1) if you forget to configure it then no harm done (as im sure we will default it 0* for all gears)
2) far easier to configure (albeit at the cost of less flexability)
anyway's I am going to look at this now..
-edit- great minds huh Bryan?
1) if you forget to configure it then no harm done (as im sure we will default it 0* for all gears)
2) far easier to configure (albeit at the cost of less flexability)
anyway's I am going to look at this now..
-edit- great minds huh Bryan?
Aug 30, 2011, 06:11 PM
#20
I just need someone to give me a quick tour of how to make these type of changes myself and I can stop bothering these busy guru's lol. Its just too difficult to do remotely with posts or email, I need to hover over someones shoulder once and I will be good.
Now, I just need to find that shoulder to hover over
-Jamie
(aka Jack_of_Trades)
Now, I just need to find that shoulder to hover over
-Jamie
(aka Jack_of_Trades)
Last edited by Dynotech Tuning; Aug 30, 2011 at 06:13 PM.
Sep 5, 2011, 04:35 PM
#22
The "lean spool" function already effectively will do what you are looking to do on the fuel side. Instead of gear based though, it's "abuse" and "time" based, which is the real issue here. You can tune the lower gears more aggressively mostly because there is less heat built up when ripping through these gears on a drag pass or dyno pull. The added benefit of the lean spool function though is that if the driver has been beating on the car and drops into second on a lower speed corner after a long 4th gear straight away, the ECU will not be as aggressive and will leave the tune safe since there is already a lot of heat built up. Also, if it detects knock, it drops it back to the safe tune.
I tuned my car with lean spool shut off to where I could beat on it relentlessly in 3rd, 4th, and 5th and have a "safe" tune. Then I activated lean spool and tuned the lean spool functions for best 2nd and 3rd gear performance. You tune the target AFR vs. Base AFR table as well as the counter tables to get the effect you are looking for. I did it on my car and it made a very noticeable difference on fun factor driving around on the street. My "safe tune" was low 11s on 91 octane and 26 psi where with this setup, I would pull through 1st and 2nd at mid 12:1 AFRs and by a bit into third gear it was down to high 11s and by the end of 3rd, it would be at my "safe" AFR.
I like the ignition trim idea too though. It would be cool if you could actually tie it in with the lean spool stuff and acted similarly as an "abuse-based" trim.
Unless these 3D ignition trims based on acceleration rate that Merlin mentioned already exist in the ECU and just need to be activated???
I know there are a couple trims in there that are deactivated from the factory that can be activated with one bit change... Never really looked to figure out what they were though.
I tuned my car with lean spool shut off to where I could beat on it relentlessly in 3rd, 4th, and 5th and have a "safe" tune. Then I activated lean spool and tuned the lean spool functions for best 2nd and 3rd gear performance. You tune the target AFR vs. Base AFR table as well as the counter tables to get the effect you are looking for. I did it on my car and it made a very noticeable difference on fun factor driving around on the street. My "safe tune" was low 11s on 91 octane and 26 psi where with this setup, I would pull through 1st and 2nd at mid 12:1 AFRs and by a bit into third gear it was down to high 11s and by the end of 3rd, it would be at my "safe" AFR.
I like the ignition trim idea too though. It would be cool if you could actually tie it in with the lean spool stuff and acted similarly as an "abuse-based" trim.
Unless these 3D ignition trims based on acceleration rate that Merlin mentioned already exist in the ECU and just need to be activated???
I know there are a couple trims in there that are deactivated from the factory that can be activated with one bit change... Never really looked to figure out what they were though.
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Sep 5, 2011 at 04:38 PM.
Sep 5, 2011, 04:49 PM
#23
The "lean spool" function already effectively will do what you are looking to do on the fuel side. Instead of gear based though, it's "abuse" and "time" based, which is the real issue here. You can tune the lower gears more aggressively mostly because there is less heat built up when ripping through these gears on a drag pass or dyno pull. The added benefit of the lean spool function though is that if the driver has been beating on the car and drops into second on a lower speed corner after a long 4th gear straight away, the ECU will not be as aggressive and will leave the tune safe since there is already a lot of heat built up. Also, if it detects knock, it drops it back to the safe tune.
I tuned my car with lean spool shut off to where I could beat on it relentlessly in 3rd, 4th, and 5th and have a "safe" tune. Then I activated lean spool and tuned the lean spool functions for best 2nd and 3rd gear performance. You tune the target AFR vs. Base AFR table as well as the counter tables to get the effect you are looking for. I did it on my car and it made a very noticeable difference on fun factor driving around on the street. My "safe tune" was low 11s on 91 octane and 26 psi where with this setup, I would pull through 1st and 2nd at mid 12:1 AFRs and by a bit into third gear it was down to high 11s and by the end of 3rd, it would be at my "safe" AFR.
I like the ignition trim idea too though. It would be cool if you could actually tie it in with the lean spool stuff and acted similarly as an "abuse-based" trim.
Unless these 3D ignition trims based on acceleration rate that Merlin mentioned already exist in the ECU and just need to be activated???
I know there are a couple trims in there that are deactivated from the factory that can be activated with one bit change... Never really looked to figure out what they were though.
I tuned my car with lean spool shut off to where I could beat on it relentlessly in 3rd, 4th, and 5th and have a "safe" tune. Then I activated lean spool and tuned the lean spool functions for best 2nd and 3rd gear performance. You tune the target AFR vs. Base AFR table as well as the counter tables to get the effect you are looking for. I did it on my car and it made a very noticeable difference on fun factor driving around on the street. My "safe tune" was low 11s on 91 octane and 26 psi where with this setup, I would pull through 1st and 2nd at mid 12:1 AFRs and by a bit into third gear it was down to high 11s and by the end of 3rd, it would be at my "safe" AFR.
I like the ignition trim idea too though. It would be cool if you could actually tie it in with the lean spool stuff and acted similarly as an "abuse-based" trim.
Unless these 3D ignition trims based on acceleration rate that Merlin mentioned already exist in the ECU and just need to be activated???
I know there are a couple trims in there that are deactivated from the factory that can be activated with one bit change... Never really looked to figure out what they were though.
I NEVER use LeanSpool and my AFR's in 1-2nd gears are always much leaner than 3-4th, generally a full point leaner. Screw Lean Spool, no offense. There is a reason almost the entire community has abandoned it. It varies too widely. I would rather have full control over each gear myself than rely on the Lean Spool function.
-Jamie
Last edited by Dynotech Tuning; Sep 5, 2011 at 04:51 PM.
Sep 5, 2011, 04:57 PM
#24
My car is pretty consistent from gear to gear with it disabled, you have to look at the actual load though and not just "hey, my car is a point leaner (and ignore that load is 40 points lower)." Could just be the speed density, but it was pretty consistent on the MAF too.
Have you ever tried to actually tune it?
The "whole" community abandoned it because they didn't understand how it worked for a long *** time. Thus the ****ty name "lean spool" when it has NOTHING to do with "spool" at all.
I've seen a VERY wise person on here say they tune their Motec to do the same thing lean spool does...
But I digress, this topic is about gear based. Maybe give it a shot some time before you blindly shoot it down...
Have you ever tried to actually tune it?
The "whole" community abandoned it because they didn't understand how it worked for a long *** time. Thus the ****ty name "lean spool" when it has NOTHING to do with "spool" at all.
I've seen a VERY wise person on here say they tune their Motec to do the same thing lean spool does...
But I digress, this topic is about gear based. Maybe give it a shot some time before you blindly shoot it down...
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Sep 5, 2011 at 05:01 PM.
Sep 5, 2011, 05:06 PM
#25
I do ECU controlled boost and follow the same LOAD curve in each gear. I don't do PSI based boost control for this very reason. Even at the same load/rpm cell, its leaner in lower gears.
Yes I have actually tried to tune with it and its simply not consistent all of the time. Im not blindly shooting it down and I probably started messing with it before you did lol. That very wise person with Motec can enjoy it all he likes
I am still more interested in the TIming trim more than the fuel trim anyhow since the lower gears will still accept more timing before the onset of knock, even with a leaner AFR since the gears are so short and heat isn't a large factor like you mentioned.
-Jamie
(aka Jack_of_Trades)
Yes I have actually tried to tune with it and its simply not consistent all of the time. Im not blindly shooting it down and I probably started messing with it before you did lol. That very wise person with Motec can enjoy it all he likes
I am still more interested in the TIming trim more than the fuel trim anyhow since the lower gears will still accept more timing before the onset of knock, even with a leaner AFR since the gears are so short and heat isn't a large factor like you mentioned.
-Jamie
(aka Jack_of_Trades)
Last edited by Dynotech Tuning; Sep 5, 2011 at 05:11 PM.
Sep 5, 2011, 05:13 PM
#26
No...
My dick is thicker, longer, and seen more high quality poon.
j/k
I do like the idea of gear based ignition trim as I feel similarly that you can definitely benefit from added ignition advance when the engine speed is accelerating very quickly.
The acceleration based table merlin mentioned seems like the better solution though then gear alone. But gear alone would be easier to tune.
My dick is thicker, longer, and seen more high quality poon.
j/k
I do like the idea of gear based ignition trim as I feel similarly that you can definitely benefit from added ignition advance when the engine speed is accelerating very quickly.
The acceleration based table merlin mentioned seems like the better solution though then gear alone. But gear alone would be easier to tune.
Sep 5, 2011, 05:25 PM
#27
No...
My dick is thicker, longer, and seen more high quality poon.
j/k
I do like the idea of gear based ignition trim as I feel similarly that you can definitely benefit from added ignition advance when the engine speed is accelerating very quickly.
The acceleration based table merlin mentioned seems like the better solution though then gear alone. But gear alone would be easier to tune.
My dick is thicker, longer, and seen more high quality poon.
j/k
I do like the idea of gear based ignition trim as I feel similarly that you can definitely benefit from added ignition advance when the engine speed is accelerating very quickly.
The acceleration based table merlin mentioned seems like the better solution though then gear alone. But gear alone would be easier to tune.
That's one reason we wanted to do the gear based, single value trim for simplicity. If it gains any power for users, its a plus. Tuning boost per gear is hard enough for most self-tuners lol.
Now, who wants to try and code this gem?
Sep 5, 2011, 09:00 PM
#28
On 9653XXX6, you are correct, baro ignition trim does not look like it is used. It looks like that baro axis is also used in the idle control routine so it will need a new axis. It would be very easy to change the axis to a different axis that used Tephra's gear stuff for the lookup. Selecting the value and putting it in a RAM address would be easy.
The part I'm not sure about though is where to implant this value to have the proper effect. Not the best method but you might be able to put it in the sub located at 000241CA. The stock setting here bypasses a bunch of code and it would be easy to slip it in.
Problem though is this is before the gear lookup sub, so the value would be 1 loop behind what the motor is actually doing. The main loop runs at like 100Hz though so it would likely not matter at all. There should be enough room here to write some pretty solid code to prevent any bugs. Might want to include a TPS/LOAD minimum or something, for example so it doesn't impact low load driveability.
The benefit to doing it this way is it uses a section of code that currently just gets bypassed and it is right at the end of the section of code that is used to calculate the "mapped" value of the ignition, before all kinds of other compensation takes place.
The part I'm not sure about though is where to implant this value to have the proper effect. Not the best method but you might be able to put it in the sub located at 000241CA. The stock setting here bypasses a bunch of code and it would be easy to slip it in.
Problem though is this is before the gear lookup sub, so the value would be 1 loop behind what the motor is actually doing. The main loop runs at like 100Hz though so it would likely not matter at all. There should be enough room here to write some pretty solid code to prevent any bugs. Might want to include a TPS/LOAD minimum or something, for example so it doesn't impact low load driveability.
The benefit to doing it this way is it uses a section of code that currently just gets bypassed and it is right at the end of the section of code that is used to calculate the "mapped" value of the ignition, before all kinds of other compensation takes place.
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Sep 5, 2011 at 09:07 PM.
haha
