Tephra v7 9653 thottle hang - Page 2

simple_lancer · Oct 6, 2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR Turco

So from what i understand that lookup table is strictly a lookup table. We are not avoiding the issue by altering that. There are multiple tables that mrfred found that act as the adders for certain conditions that accumulate. I believe the ecu uses the accumulative value against that table. Therefore, i think making the values higher, not lower, could combat the issue but the real fix is either decel fuel cut or altering the adder values to not hit those sections.

No making the values higher in the lookup table will make throttle hang worse.

You are right that there are adders under certain situations. The two tables I have posted add HEAPS to your idle demand percentage when you press the accelerator alot. By zeroing those two tables, it essentially makes it so that the idle demand percentage stays low (max 50%) so that you only work half way down the right hand column of the lookup table.

Make sure you leave the idle stepper table STOCK, do not make all the values the same or anything like that.

Also make sure you edit the vertical scaling on the idle stepper lookup table to idle demand as outlined in this thread.
ISCV control system disassembly

simple_lancer · Oct 6, 2009, 07:10 AM

Oh just noticed the post by MrFred doesn't have the tables for 96530006.
Here it is for 96530006:

<scaling name="ISCV_AX2_8" units="% Demand" toexpr="x*100/255" frexpr="x*255/100" format="%.1f" min="0" max="200" inc="0.5" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>

<scaling name="ISCV_AX2_16" units="% Demand" toexpr="x*100/255" frexpr="x*255/100" format="%.1f" min="0" max="200" inc="0.5" storagetype="uint16" endian="big"/>

<scaling name="Baro16" units="bar" toexpr="x/200" frexpr="x*200" format="%.3f" min="0" max="1.100" inc="0.001" storagetype="uint16" endian="big"/>

<table name="ISCV Demand Target Idle Trim (sub_1ECF6)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="435c" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Target Idle Deviation" type="Y Axis" address="669a" elements="9" scaling="RPMTarget"/>
</table>

<table name="Target Idle ISCV Trim Adjust Frequency" category="ISCV Control" address="18c2" type="1D" level="2" scaling="Time"/>

<table name="ISCV Demand Below 500 RPM Idle Recovery Adder (sub_1E2C8)" category="ISCV Control" address="1916" type="1D" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_16"/>

<table name="ISCV Demand Startup CTS Adder (sub_1EBB8)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="42c0" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="69be" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand General CTS Subtractor (sub_1EBE6)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="4384" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="69be" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand Baro Adder (FFFF6E98) (sub_1E1EE)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="434a" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Baro" type="Y Axis" address="6824" elements="5" scaling="Baro16"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand RPM Adder* (sub_1EFC0)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="47e8" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="RPM" type="Y Axis" address="6576" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand RPM Adder [rpm > 4500, load > 170, speed > 12 mph] (sub_1EFC0)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="605c" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="RPM" type="Y Axis" address="7af6" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand CTS Adder #1** (sub_1F1F8, sub_1EA0C, sub_1F596) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="4288" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6aa0" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand CTS Adder #2** (Post WOT) (sub_1F1F8) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="5a54" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6a50" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand CTS Adder #1a*** (sub_1F2C6, 1F596) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="5786" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6aa0" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand CTS Adder #1b*** (sub_1F2C6) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="42a4" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6aa0" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand CTS Adder #2*** (Post WOT) (sub_1F2C6) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="5a70" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6a50" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand RPM Adder (Moderated by Baro, IATS) (FFFF6EA8) (sub_204B6) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="651c" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="RPM" type="Y Axis" address="7b70" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand Baro Adder**** (FFFF7C0E) (sub_1F6E6) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="64fe" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Baro" type="Y Axis" address="6824" elements="5" scaling="Baro16"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand IATS Adder**** (FFFF7C0E) (sub_1F6E6) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="650e" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Intake Air Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6af0" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="Idle Stepper Lookup Table" category="ISCV Control" type="3D" address="43ab" scaling="ISCVSteps">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="X Axis" elements="8" address="6b0a" scaling="Temp"/>
<table name="ISCV Demand" type="Y Axis" elements="27" address="6b24" scaling="ISCV_AX2_16"/>
</table>

mrfred · Oct 6, 2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simple_lancer

Don't fiddle with the Idle stepper lookup table.
It just makes the rev hang happen at a lower rpm, but it still persists.

The reason why there is rev hang, is there is a table that adds a LOT to your idle demand (the vertical axis on the idle stepper lookup table) and causes the stepper position to go really high.

The tables I used to completely erradicate throttle hang were under the "ISCV Control" category:

- ISCV Demand RPM Adder [rpm > 4500, load > 170, speed > 12 mph]
- ISCV Demand RPM Adder (Moderated by Baro, IATS) (FFFF6EA8) (sub_204B6) [sub_1EFC0]

These two tables add up to 100% on top of your idle demand percentage and makes the lookup value much higher in the idle stepper lookup table.

Zero these two tables out, and log your iscv steps in evoscan.
You'll notice instead of going up to 120 or so when you accelerate hard, the iscv steps will only go up to around 70 instead, which will not induce rev hang. The iscv steps will also decay very quickly, since it won't reach such a high value like before. I haven't noticed any reduction in idle quality or part throttle driveability.

You may have to play with your Decel Fuel Cut Delay tables as well, but I don't know what the difference is between tables 1, 2, 3, and 4 are. I just made all my tables the same values as the ones in table 2 (this one has the lowest values and is the same as table 4).

Sorry for the long explanation, but it kind of makes it hard without pictures!

This post has a wealth of info on how the idle speed control system works.
ISCV control system disassembly

Go MrFred you are a legend!

I burned myself out pretty good doing the disassem to find and decipher these tables. :-) I always figured the ISCV tables were the solution to the rev hang. Glad you took the time to try all the tables and determine which ones did the trick.

donour · Oct 6, 2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanV

Please tell me where can I find the xml definitions for the decel fuel cut tables on the 96530706 ROM, I have searched but not come up with anything.
Thx

96530006:

<table name="Decel Fuel Cut Delay #1" category="Fuel" address="42ce" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="Load" address="697a" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Load"/>
</table>

<table name="Decel Fuel Cut Delay #2" category="Fuel" address="42dc" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="Load" address="697a" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Load"/>
</table>

<table name="Decel Fuel Cut Delay #3" category="Fuel" address="42ea" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="Load" address="697a" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Load"/>
</table>

<table name="Decel Fuel Cut Delay #4" category="Fuel" address="42f8" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="Load" address="697a" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Load"/>
</table>

<table name="Decel Fuel Cut Retard" category="Fuel" address="4312" type="2D" level="2" scaling="Timing">
<table name="Engine Speed" address="6576" type="X Axis" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>

donour · Oct 6, 2009, 12:29 PM

I also have this problem when switching from a '04 USDM rom to 96530006. The car also likes to stall when rolling to stop.

On a related note, I've noticed significantly reduced mileage on the 96530706-t6 ROM. I suspect the decel fuel cut tables are the culprit.

d

**MR Turco** · Oct 6, 2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simple_lancer

No making the values higher in the lookup table will make throttle hang worse.

You are right that there are adders under certain situations. The two tables I have posted add HEAPS to your idle demand percentage when you press the accelerator alot. By zeroing those two tables, it essentially makes it so that the idle demand percentage stays low (max 50%) so that you only work half way down the right hand column of the lookup table.

Make sure you leave the idle stepper table STOCK, do not make all the values the same or anything like that.

Also make sure you edit the vertical scaling on the idle stepper lookup table to idle demand as outlined in this thread.
ISCV control system disassembly

I totally missed your original post. Thanks for the info, i will definitely zero out those tables and try that.

SeanV · Oct 6, 2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donour

96530006:

<table name="Decel Fuel Cut Delay #1" category="Fuel" address="42ce" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="Load" address="697a" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Load"/>
</table>

<table name="Decel Fuel Cut Delay #2" category="Fuel" address="42dc" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="Load" address="697a" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Load"/>
</table>

<table name="Decel Fuel Cut Delay #3" category="Fuel" address="42ea" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="Load" address="697a" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Load"/>
</table>

<table name="Decel Fuel Cut Delay #4" category="Fuel" address="42f8" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="Load" address="697a" type="X Axis" elements="7" scaling="Load"/>
</table>

<table name="Decel Fuel Cut Retard" category="Fuel" address="4312" type="2D" level="2" scaling="Timing">
<table name="Engine Speed" address="6576" type="X Axis" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>

Thx

project_skyline · Oct 6, 2009, 02:13 PM

I didn't see a clear cut answer but is this the high rpm throttle hang or what?

BLKCarbonEVO · Oct 6, 2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project_skyline

I didn't see a clear cut answer but is this the high rpm throttle hang or what?

I was wondering the same thing. Anything over 4k rpms the throttle will hang... It's weird because I didn't notice it till after my last ECU Flash. I'm not sure what mod is on my ECU though...

Evo_Kid · Oct 6, 2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simple_lancer

Oh just noticed the post by MrFred doesn't have the tables for 96530006.
Here it is for 96530006:

<scaling name="ISCV_AX2_8" units="% Demand" toexpr="x*100/255" frexpr="x*255/100" format="%.1f" min="0" max="200" inc="0.5" storagetype="uint8" endian="big"/>

<scaling name="ISCV_AX2_16" units="% Demand" toexpr="x*100/255" frexpr="x*255/100" format="%.1f" min="0" max="200" inc="0.5" storagetype="uint16" endian="big"/>

<scaling name="Baro16" units="bar" toexpr="x/200" frexpr="x*200" format="%.3f" min="0" max="1.100" inc="0.001" storagetype="uint16" endian="big"/>

<table name="ISCV Demand Target Idle Trim (sub_1ECF6)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="435c" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Target Idle Deviation" type="Y Axis" address="669a" elements="9" scaling="RPMTarget"/>
</table>

<table name="Target Idle ISCV Trim Adjust Frequency" category="ISCV Control" address="18c2" type="1D" level="2" scaling="Time"/>

<table name="ISCV Demand Below 500 RPM Idle Recovery Adder (sub_1E2C8)" category="ISCV Control" address="1916" type="1D" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_16"/>

<table name="ISCV Demand Startup CTS Adder (sub_1EBB8)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="42c0" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="69be" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand General CTS Subtractor (sub_1EBE6)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="4384" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="69be" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand Baro Adder (FFFF6E98) (sub_1E1EE)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="434a" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Baro" type="Y Axis" address="6824" elements="5" scaling="Baro16"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand RPM Adder* (sub_1EFC0)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="47e8" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="RPM" type="Y Axis" address="6576" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand RPM Adder [rpm > 4500, load > 170, speed > 12 mph] (sub_1EFC0)" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="605c" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="RPM" type="Y Axis" address="7af6" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand CTS Adder #1** (sub_1F1F8, sub_1EA0C, sub_1F596) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="4288" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6aa0" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand CTS Adder #2** (Post WOT) (sub_1F1F8) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="5a54" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6a50" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand CTS Adder #1a*** (sub_1F2C6, 1F596) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="5786" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6aa0" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand CTS Adder #1b*** (sub_1F2C6) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="42a4" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6aa0" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand CTS Adder #2*** (Post WOT) (sub_1F2C6) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="5a70" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6a50" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand RPM Adder (Moderated by Baro, IATS) (FFFF6EA8) (sub_204B6) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="651c" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="RPM" type="Y Axis" address="7b70" elements="10" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand Baro Adder**** (FFFF7C0E) (sub_1F6E6) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="64fe" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Baro" type="Y Axis" address="6824" elements="5" scaling="Baro16"/>
</table>

<table name="ISCV Demand IATS Adder**** (FFFF7C0E) (sub_1F6E6) [sub_1EFC0]" category="ISCV Control" type="2D" address="650e" level="2" scaling="ISCV_AX2_8">
<table name="Intake Air Temp" type="Y Axis" address="6af0" elements="8" scaling="Temp"/>
</table>

<table name="Idle Stepper Lookup Table" category="ISCV Control" type="3D" address="43ab" scaling="ISCVSteps">
<table name="Coolant Temp" type="X Axis" elements="8" address="6b0a" scaling="Temp"/>
<table name="ISCV Demand" type="Y Axis" elements="27" address="6b24" scaling="ISCV_AX2_16"/>
</table>

Anyone got these table address for ROM 9417, 9642 and 9694?

Appauldd · Oct 6, 2009, 05:46 PM

+1 for 94170015....please.

SWOLN · Oct 6, 2009, 10:00 PM

Why aren't all these tables in Ecuflash ? ... tables for 88590015 please, and Thank You.

logic · Oct 7, 2009, 06:35 AM

88590015 was the first ROM done, thanks to mrfred.

mrfred · Oct 7, 2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evo_Kid

Anyone got these table address for ROM 9417, 9642 and 9694?

Not sure if I'd want to find these tables for all these ROMs. If I can get further verification that the two tables the OP mentioned fix the problem (e.g., someone using 88590015), then I can find those for other ROMs.

SWOLN · Oct 7, 2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logic

88590015 was the first ROM done, thanks to mrfred.

Whoops, my bad.