Stock ECU and COP

[Ted B]

I am presently using Spark Tech's M&W Pro-12 COP with the stock ECU. I've made some observations:

- If you have a new build, turbo setup, etc., tune with the factory ignition first. FWIW, the M&W unit will give you lots of grief if the tune isn't already close to spot on.

- With my setup, the factory ignition will misfire at 25 psi with BR8ES at 0.028". When this happens, the misfire is manifested as knock. With the COP, the misfire is gone, and knock count goes to "0".

- I've been fiddling with the ignition map for some time, but there is still a bit of residual misfire at light load, throttle tip-in. For whatever reason, this seemed to have improved slightly when I recently revamped my ISCV lookup table (see:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...=226466&page=3 / Begin at post #206 and go from there).

- I am still running this setup in regular mode. I am about to switch it to 'high-power' mode and observe any difference. Another user tells me it helped this a bit for him, we'll see what it does for me.

- I am at a loss as to why this setup would perform any differently with a standalone (no part throttle fussiness), but apparently, there is a difference.

[Jack_of_Trades]

Originally Posted by Ted B

With my setup, the factory ignition will misfire at 25 psi with BR8ES at 0.028". When this happens, the misfire is manifested as knock. With the COP, the misfire is gone, and knock count goes to "0".

I'm pretty sure most people run a closer gap than that with the stock ignition and higher boost, say .022"-.024" to eliminate the misfires with the 8's. COP would certainly be a nice upgrade in the future though

[RoadSpike]

Originally Posted by Ted B

- I've been fiddling with the ignition map for some time, but there is still a bit of residual misfire at light load, throttle tip-in. For whatever reason, this seemed to have improved slightly when I recently revamped my ISCV lookup table (see:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...=226466&page=3 / Begin at post #206 and go from there).

Grrr broken link... fixed!

Throttle hang and the Idle Stepper Table

[dan l]

Originally Posted by razorlab

dan l,

Are you using the Dynatek ARC-2 with the montero coils? I had installed one months ago but kept getting really nasty misfires at cruise. It was fine at WOT.

One day while driving around town it totally freaked out and the car started backfiring and spitting fireballs at cruise down the street. I took it off and haven't thought about it since.

This is the setup I had:

Yes I am and this is on my DSM. All is fine. Did you have multispark enabled?

My friend ran my unit on his EVO 8 and had no complaints. If you want to sell your ARC-2 PM me.

[JohnBradley]

Dan, do you have a link to DynaTeK perchance. I read your PM and then this thread and I am interested in some more information.

[Magnumpsi]

Has anyone seen coil dwell as a possible setting in any of the roms that have been dissassembled?

Would be great if we could get full control of coil dwell as it may help to reduce some of these problems associated with the COP set-ups.

Mitch

[mrfred]

Originally Posted by Mitch@VividRacing

Has anyone seen coil dwell as a possible setting in any of the roms that have been dissassembled?

Would be great if we could get full control of coil dwell as it may help to reduce some of these problems associated with the COP set-ups.

Mitch

I was just thinking about this a few days ago. Haven't tried to look yet because of other disassembly stuff keeping me busy. Bez may have it in one of his disassemblies though.

[dan l]

Originally Posted by Mitch@VividRacing

Has anyone seen coil dwell as a possible setting in any of the roms that have been dissassembled?

Would be great if we could get full control of coil dwell as it may help to reduce some of these problems associated with the COP set-ups.

Mitch

Coil dwell does not matter once your running a COP. The reason being is that the stock output from the ignition is simply a trigger to the COP system. Once the ignition is triggered the COP fires instantly and with much LESS duration than an inductive ignition. What matters when running a COP is the turns ratio of the coil and its ability to withstand extremely high primary and secondary voltages before breaking down.

Coil dwell time DOES matter if running the stock ignition and non stock coils (like if you were to wire up DSM coils into an evo, you'd need to adjust dwell or you could run into problems).

[dan l]

Originally Posted by JohnBradley

Dan, do you have a link to DynaTeK perchance. I read your PM and then this thread and I am interested in some more information.

http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/Default.aspx

[Magnumpsi]

Originally Posted by dan l

Coil dwell does not matter once your running a COP. The reason being is that the stock output from the ignition is simply a trigger to the COP system. Once the ignition is triggered the COP fires instantly and with much LESS duration than an inductive ignition. What matters when running a COP is the turns ratio of the coil and its ability to withstand extremely high primary and secondary voltages before breaking down.

Coil dwell time DOES matter if running the stock ignition and non stock coils (like if you were to wire up DSM coils into an evo, you'd need to adjust dwell or you could run into problems).

I guess I should have been more clear. I was meaning for the 300m coils or as you said the DSM coils. It would be a good parameter to have for guys that want to go a little cheaper of a route.

Mitch

[TTP Engineering]

Originally Posted by Ted B

I am presently using Spark Tech's M&W Pro-12 COP with the stock ECU. I've made some observations:

- If you have a new build, turbo setup, etc., tune with the factory ignition first. FWIW, the M&W unit will give you lots of grief if the tune isn't already close to spot on.

- With my setup, the factory ignition will misfire at 25 psi with BR8ES at 0.028". When this happens, the misfire is manifested as knock. With the COP, the misfire is gone, and knock count goes to "0".

- I've been fiddling with the ignition map for some time, but there is still a bit of residual misfire at light load, throttle tip-in. For whatever reason, this seemed to have improved slightly when I recently revamped my ISCV lookup table (see:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...=226466&page=3 / Begin at post #206 and go from there).

- I am still running this setup in regular mode. I am about to switch it to 'high-power' mode and observe any difference. Another user tells me it helped this a bit for him, we'll see what it does for me.

- I am at a loss as to why this setup would perform any differently with a standalone (no part throttle fussiness), but apparently, there is a difference.

Our sparktech pro-12 system was revised and returned three times. It has been tested on multiple cammed Evo's and exhibits misfires on either car.

Sparktech claims to be working on a sheilded trigger wires update, but I am not convinced it will change anything.

If you think you have smaller misfires at low load. LOL, I can't wait until you try single spark. The car becomes hardly driveable.

The system does not spark at the correct time, period.

[razorlab]

Originally Posted by dan l

Yes I am and this is on my DSM. All is fine. Did you have multispark enabled?

My friend ran my unit on his EVO 8 and had no complaints. If you want to sell your ARC-2 PM me.

Yea tried multispark. I am beginning to think the box went bad. I really want to make it work.

I'll call them up.

[dan l]

They seemed extremely good to work with (albeit extremely busy). I had to retrofit the system onto my bastard child oddly wired 90 DSM and they helped me out a lot. Like I said, my friend tried my unit on his evo and he liked it. I would like to pick up one for my daily driver evo.

Also did you get OEM mitsu montero coils? Just trying to troubleshoot your car. If you did not get OEM coils I would start there personally. If you want, you can ship me your unit and I'll install it on my car (simple plug and play) and see if it exhibits any problems for me. It might be simpler and cheaper than sending it out to Dynatek. I can push it to a real world 30psi.

Also what plugs and/or gap were you running. Too much gap can damage any CDI and cause driveability issues. I would stick to 30-32 thousandths on the gold ole' BPR8es or BPR9ES plugs. I only tried 36 thousandths to push the unit.

Also route the dyntek harness like in the instructions to keep it away from noisey items. An induced EMI will trigger the CDI to fire at the wrong time and cause problems when driving.

Hope this helps.

[razorlab]

Originally Posted by dan l

They seemed extremely good to work with (albeit extremely busy). I had to retrofit the system onto my bastard child oddly wired 90 DSM and they helped me out a lot. Like I said, my friend tried my unit on his evo and he liked it. I would like to pick up one for my daily driver evo.

Also did you get OEM mitsu montero coils? Just trying to troubleshoot your car. If you did not get OEM coils I would start there personally. If you want, you can ship me your unit and I'll install it on my car (simple plug and play) and see if it exhibits any problems for me. It might be simpler and cheaper than sending it out to Dynatek. I can push it to a real world 30psi.

Also what plugs and/or gap were you running. Too much gap can damage any CDI and cause driveability issues. I would stick to 30-32 thousandths on the gold ole' BPR8es or BPR9ES plugs. I only tried 36 thousandths to push the unit.

Also route the dyntek harness like in the instructions to keep it away from noisey items. An induced EMI will trigger the CDI to fire at the wrong time and cause problems when driving.

Hope this helps.

I'm pretty sure they are OEM. I'll double check tonight.

I was using ngk iridiums gapped at .025. Maybe the box doesn't like iridiums?

I recently went back to the BR8ES's

Thanks for the tips

[Whoop_ass]

so Basically
the Sparktech system doent work with the stock ECU..
i have an autronic and just purchased one of there units...
I am gonna pretty pissed if it dont work.