how to shift smoothly while driving aggressively

rghli · Sep 20, 2005, 12:44 PM

i can shift smoothly when shift slowly or naturally. but when i try to drive more a aggressively or shift really fast, i can't manage it good. is there any techniques for it? i drove manual cars for 3 years so i assume i know how to drive it, but race it.

Curt@MrLed · Sep 20, 2005, 12:46 PM

youre racing the car, its not going to be smooth... either learn how to engage the clutch a little smoother or buy stiffer mounts or the cheap ass engine shock... thats about all you can do..

DaWorstPlaya · Sep 20, 2005, 12:56 PM

Mind over matter, even when racing you have to stay calm and shift smoothly. You really don't save much time by ramming throught the gears but do cause accelerated tranny/synchro wear ...

ez · Sep 20, 2005, 08:24 PM

A couple of upshift techniques I use...

Don't come completely off throttle during a fast shift. Come out just enough so that the next gear lines up at the proper RPM. Quickly, but just enough to take torque off of the synchro drum and allow the shift.

Just the instant that you are about to shift, put a *slight* pressure on the shifter toward the next gear you want to hit. As the throttle eases, the clutch goes in, and the torque comes off of the drum, that slight pressure will "release" you into the next gear. I find this somewhat delicate on the Evo box...most other gearboxes I'm used to can take a little more pressure. To me it seems the Evo likes to come out of gear a bit more easily...

Downshift...

Real feel and finesse here. Hard and smooth on the brakes, clutch in, into neutral, clutch out, reach and blip the throttle, clutch in, into gear, clutch out. Very quick and smooth...tons of practice.

Anyway, both of course require much much practice and learning at the expense of your gearbox :>

I hope these ideas help in some way...

Cabo · Sep 20, 2005, 08:34 PM

It all starts in your head.

You need to remind yourself that harder+faster does not equal better shifts. You really should be shifting about the same as when you are cruising along. You'll develop some "short cuts" like described above, but you need to let those come naturally. Stay calm, be gentle, and things will work better before you know it. The biggest difference between driving "normally" and aggressively is how much you use the gas and brake. Make sure you are graceful with the pedals.

When you get disciplined enough, remind yourself that all of the steps to a good shift have to happen in order, i.e. off gas, clutch in, out of gear, into gear, clutch out, back on gas. Once you get a better feel for the timing of things, you'll learn which of these steps can be "combined" (almost).

Cabo

purecoda · Sep 20, 2005, 08:43 PM

gently depress clutch, put car in first
take a deep breath and floor it
yank first into second, no clutch
punch second into third, no clutch
jerk third into fourth, no clutch
thrust fourth into fifth, no clutch

i do it because i like the smell (and the sound) of grinding gears.

rghli · Sep 22, 2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ez

A couple of upshift techniques I use...

Don't come completely off throttle during a fast shift. Come out just enough so that the next gear lines up at the proper RPM. Quickly, but just enough to take torque off of the synchro drum and allow the shift.

Just the instant that you are about to shift, put a *slight* pressure on the shifter toward the next gear you want to hit. As the throttle eases, the clutch goes in, and the torque comes off of the drum, that slight pressure will "release" you into the next gear. I find this somewhat delicate on the Evo box...most other gearboxes I'm used to can take a little more pressure. To me it seems the Evo likes to come out of gear a bit more easily...

Downshift...

Real feel and finesse here. Hard and smooth on the brakes, clutch in, into neutral, clutch out, reach and blip the throttle, clutch in, into gear, clutch out. Very quick and smooth...tons of practice.

Anyway, both of course require much much practice and learning at the expense of your gearbox :>

I hope these ideas help in some way...

thanks for the great advice.

ez · Sep 22, 2005, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rghli

thanks for the great advice.

NP...best of luck!

djmikeymike · Sep 22, 2005, 04:48 PM

i was going to start a thread like this!! when i drive normal i have no problems i have driven stick for 10 years..... but for some reason when i'm driveing hard in the EVO it is very jerky........... i have never had these problem before and i have been thinking it is because the allwheel drive...... when i'm on the go pedal hard and i let off the car rocks forward.... i guest i need to learn how to better when i want to have fun.

FinsNCanes · Sep 23, 2005, 05:10 PM

Weird..

I actually seem to drive better when I'm driving aggressive. No idea why..just feels that way.

redevo8driver · Sep 25, 2005, 11:22 AM

me too...it seems the higher the rpm's the smoother the clutch engagement maybe because of the lack of boost when you are off the throttle for too long at lower rpms? all i know is that if i'm driving slow i have to concentrate more on the engagement point..when i drive fully aggressively its the smoothest for me..and anywhere in between is no good cuz the car wants to go faster and seems a bit jerky during clutch engagement..oh well haha

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinsNCanes

Weird..

I actually seem to drive better when I'm driving aggressive. No idea why..just feels that way.

lafftwipp · Sep 25, 2005, 11:39 AM

use heel and toe when u down shift...

press brake... then almost simultaneously press clutch and blimp gas (rev match... use your heel to hit the gas) then get into the gear you want then release clutch... this should be fast.. i takes a lot of practice.. but trust me.. its worth it...... you would have to use it when u downshift before taking a curve.... it sets you in gear even when down shifting from high RPMs.

i think its almost the same as what rghli said... his is double clutching (takes more practice).. it just depends on how you get used to it...

just keep in mind, everytime you down shift, you rev match (thats why you blimp the gas)... even if you're not slowing down and you just want to downshift, you can tap the gas almost simultaneously when pressing clutch....

when u upshift... hmm i dont know... i just shift fast and smooth.. i think i shift better when driving aggresively.... i dont know... =p

sorry if post is weird.. im tired and sleepy... hope it helps

SterlingEvo · Sep 25, 2005, 11:56 AM

kind of generic, but: practice. It's the same with anything. The more you practice, the more it becomes second-nature so you don't even think about it, your body just does it.

blackhawkRA · Sep 25, 2005, 03:51 PM

If you learn and practice double-clutching and heel-toe while driving either normally, or fairly aggressively, the concepts should stick with you when driving aggresively. And as far as the tenseness and roughness of your muscles and movements, they should be no more rough or tense than when you're driving normally.

If you ever get a chance to read Bob Bondurant's books, you will find them SOO helpful on this subject. He's raced pretty much every kind of race car you can think of from any era, and his biggest emphasis is being smooth. His saying is the generic one that everybody says for racing: slow=smooth, smooth=fast. As he explains, the biggest problem people have when driving aggressively is being too stiff with the controls (mainly steering wheel and shifter). When you are light and smooth with everything, you get an immense amount of more vehicle response, and you seem to be able to keep everything within your control.

Now the main reason I brought up Bondurant is his suggested shifter-hand positions. One time he got stuck driving this F1 car that was set up for a small driver in a long distance race and he had so little room, the only way he could shift was by using only the palm of the hand for 2-3 & 4-5, while only using the fingertips for 1-2 & 3-4. Now this seems a little dramatic, but I use this technique to an extent and it works so much better than using a deathgrip, like so many people do when the adrenaline is rushing. He says to treat the shift knob like a raw egg shell. Translate this into your own technique as you wish, but it's a perfect theory to keep in mind while driving an Evo/RA gearbox. If you don't like any advice I've given to this point, at least consider this: "be firm and positive, but gentle and smooth."

There's already been so much good advice on this thread, I don't know what else to say. Get used to your car... know your rev-matches in every gear, and learn the "sweet spot" of every gear. Be precise in everything you do. It's much more important to have a smooth shift wherein the car's suspension state isn't altered and no grinding or hesitation in the mechanics occurs, as opposed to a fast shift, which may tend to be sloppy, faster than the linkage wants to move, and can mess with suspension state. This is especially so in new drivers (I first drove a stick about 8 months ago), which is why I keep all of this in my mind.

Once again, practice practice practice and let us know how your improvements go (I still have years of improvement). Good luck and hope we helped!

Cabo · Sep 25, 2005, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhawkRA

...as far as the tenseness and roughness of your muscles and movements, they should be no more rough or tense than when you're driving normally.

+1

Cabo