Hints and tips on self-aligning toe settings

Evo_Someday · Sep 5, 2008, 05:53 PM

I would consider this a relatively advanced question. I want to make some adjustments to my toe to zero it out. Let me be more specific, I want to give it an "autocross" alignment. I know how many degrees I want to go but not sure about how many turns of the nut it will take.

I had it on the machine to check it out and here is where we are right now...

As you can see, I want to turn my right front about 0.17 degrees out. How many turns? I also want to turn the left front in just a hair. Maybe like a half-turn of the nut?

Does anyone have a point of reference on how much one complete turn makes? That would really help. Thanks.

kanyonkid · Sep 5, 2008, 05:55 PM

u gotta use the old string on the ground method... its not a set number of turns.. i dont recommend it tho, the naked eye isnt that good as i tried this once...

Evo_Someday · Sep 5, 2008, 06:24 PM

Ok, I think I have come up with a way to do this. So here is a string around the rear wheel going to the front...

Here is the string touching the rear of the front wheel...

And the string slightly spaced off the front of the front wheel. The distance is exaggerated in this picture.. sorry the string moved when taking the picture.

The view overall from the rear wheel to the front wheel. Makes sense right?

So the theory is.. from the outer edge of the rear wheel the string should, in theory, touch the rear and front edge of the front wheel at the same time. Since the string touches the back and there is a space at the front, I would think, turn the front edge out until it meets the string.

I have the steering wheel centered... Am I missing anything? This should work right?

Evo_Someday · Sep 5, 2008, 08:11 PM

Ok, so I'm done. I turned the toes out until they touched the string both front and rear of the wheel evenly. Then just for a sanity check I stepped behind the rear wheel, looking forward, and sighted things up. The rear and front wheels appear to be in a line.

I tightened everyting up and took it for a drive. It ran nice and straight. I can't say that turn-in was particularly improved but I guess I'll find out this Sunday at the next AutoX.

Also, When I get a chance, I will have the alignment checked at a local tire place and see what numbers I ended up with and post them here. Hopefully, I got it right. But if not, I guess I can always pay someone to fix my messup.

I'll let you know what I find out.

smack_evo · Sep 5, 2008, 08:35 PM

one problem with this theory comes up if the rear track is not equal to the front track. if the rear is narrower then you'll get toe-out when the front is in line with the leading edge of the rear tire and toe-in if the track is wider.
i'm not sure what stock is but i'm sure the info is out there. you may want to check that out.
also running staggered offsets or spacers on one end and not the other would cause these same issues even if the stock tracks were the same.

just thought i'd throw that out there.

Evo_Someday · Sep 6, 2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smack_evo

one problem with this theory comes up if the rear track is not equal to the front track.

That is a good point and I did think about that. But I only just now went and measured. It turns out the front track is about 1/4" wider than the rear track with identical wheels and tires. So, I guess that means I have a touch of toe out now. I wouldn't mind a bit for autoX but this might be too much. I guess I'll have to get it checked on the machine to see where I ended up.

tephra · Sep 7, 2008, 08:03 AM

toe is usually measured in mm rather than degs

a 1/4 turn of the tie-rod equals about 1mm of toe.

of course its car to car dependant.

personally I would increase the camber (or decrease) down to -2.5deg or even more... that will increase your cornering performance.

Evo_Someday · Sep 8, 2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tephra

personally I would increase the camber (or decrease) down to -2.5deg or even more... that will increase your cornering performance.

I agree -- and actually I might even go even -3.5 for autocross. But I can't until I get camber plates. An I probably won't bother doing that until I can afford some good coilovers.

barneyb · Sep 13, 2008, 04:46 PM

For the front at least, make a trammel bar out of wood. I'd recommend a 2 X 2 the track of the car and a couple of pieces of light plywood the width of the tread and half the height of the wheel.

I measure from a rain groove on one tire to a rain groove on the tire on the opposite side. The more accurate the marks the better the reading. I put tape along the edge of the plywood and make pin pricks. If the readings on the front of the tires matches the reading on the rear, your toe is zero.

UMSTuning · Nov 27, 2008, 01:35 PM

http://www.longacreracing.com/catalo...setup/7950.gif

Add 2 tape measures and you have quick and cheap trackside toe adjustments.

Tony

GTLocke13 · Nov 28, 2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tephra

toe is usually measured in mm rather than degs

a 1/4 turn of the tie-rod equals about 1mm of toe.

of course its car to car dependant.

personally I would increase the camber (or decrease) down to -2.5deg or even more... that will increase your cornering performance.

Toe is actually an angle, we just talk about it in distance because that's how you measure it at home. Alignment machines measure angle, not distance.

I would agree that you need to flip the front alignment bolts around. It should give you another degree or so of camber.

jplgsx · Dec 20, 2008, 08:32 PM

You can try to judge how many turns of the trhead will produce, but then once you tighten the jam nut everything is going to change. Why don't you just find a shop with the latest Hunter alignment rack and that ALSO gets it calibrated (Hunter will tell you who in your area) and get a spec alignment. Rear camber and toe will take a while because changing one will affect the other. The front is tough because Mitsu doesn't have a precise way of adjusting camber - it just has the top bolt that holds the lower portion of the strut that flips from one setting to another and that STILL leaves a good deal of slop. You can loosen the bolts and still move 5 or more degrees one way or another. Once camber is set THEN you can adjust toe in the front. That should be ZERO. Again, tightening the lock nuts WILL change the toe setting so it takes some time to get it right. Forget the string - a calibrated alignment machine will get it to the 1/100 of a degree.