Toe change when adding negative camber

[RaNGVR-4]

How do you other guys cope with the change in toe-in when you add negative camber? The way the drivetrain is laid out only allows the steering rack to be located behind the hubs, therefore when you add negative camber, the tie-rods are holding the back of the hub out, so the front of the hub moves in farther.

Since i daily drive my car, but also auto-x/ run track days regularly, Id like to be able to add negative camber for events, without getting silly amounts of toe-in. Then be able to adjust back out for better tire wear day-to day.

[griceiv]

Originally Posted by FatheroftheEVO

How do you other guys cope with the change in toe-in when you add negative camber?

you adjust the toe when you adjust the camber.

[RaNGVR-4]

Every track day? thats once a week for me, not acceptable. and that would be far to inaccurate as well. minute changes in toe really affect how the car turns in and feels while driving hard

[griceiv]

Well you asked how everyone else is doing it, so i told you. Not my problem if you don't want to do it.

[RaNGVR-4]

And I think theres another solution, thanks for the imput however.

[griceiv]

Care to share your idea? I'm curious.

[chrisw]

Another solution is not to change anything between the street and track settings.

I regually run ~-3 degrees camber with 0 degrees toe on the street with minimal abnormal wear. I am going into my second winter on my all season street tires with over 40k miles with this type of alignment.

It's a comprimise between the performance I want in autox, and the tire longevity I need when driving on the street.

[RaNGVR-4]

delete

[RaNGVR-4]

Originally Posted by griceiv

Care to share your idea? I'm curious.

Im thinking if you run max caster for the street, when you adjust camber more negative, you can take away some caster which would rotate the front of the hub out, keeping the toe-in change in check.

Sure, your loosing caster( but only the caster you have gained, I wouldnt adjust past stock, if you even have to adjust that far), but the extra static negative camber is worth it- if it works. I dont yet have caster/camber plates.

[chrisw]

Originally Posted by FatheroftheEVO

Im thinking if you run max caster for the street, when you adjust camber more negative, you can take away some caster which would rotate the front of the hub out, keeping the toe-in change in check.

Sure, your loosing caster( but only the caster you have gained, I wouldnt adjust past stock, if you even have to adjust that far), but the extra static negative camber is worth it- if it works. I dont yet have caster/camber plates.

won't work. The caster change will not affect the toe as much as the camber change affects the toe.

[EVOlutionary]

So let's say you have the car set at -2* camber/zero toe, and you take the camber all the way to zero with the camber plates, how much will that actually change toe?? Has anyone ever measured the relationship here?? Will that affect toe more or less than adjusting camber at the camber bolt on the shock body/spindle??

EVOlutionary

[RaNGVR-4]

Originally Posted by EVOlutionary

So let's say you have the car set at -2* camber/zero toe, and you take the camber all the way to zero with the camber plates, how much will that actually change toe?? Has anyone ever measured the relationship here?? Will that affect toe more or less than adjusting camber at the camber bolt on the shock body/spindle??

EVOlutionary

The toe will go fairly toe out in that situation. when i noticed this happening, I was actually very suprised at just how much toe in i was getting going from ~-1.5* to ~-3*.

[Caffeine Slug]

I change camber and toe before and after every autox (which isn't the solution you're looking for, I know). It's really not that bad. My setup is Cusco camber plates on a stock suspension.

For my street setting I set the stock camber bolts to max negative camber, adjusted the plates to -2°, and set to zero toe. Then I set the camber plates to -3.5°, adjusted toe to 1/4" toe out, and counted how many turns of a tie rod it took to achieve that. Both my street and autox camber settings are marked on the plates.

Now at each event I just slide the camber plates to the marked spot and adjust the toe on one side of the car (and ignore the crooked steering wheel). It takes maybe five minutes at the beginning and end of an event to change it, if that.

I totally agree that the accumulated variation in adjusting toe over and over again should lead to a bad setup, but it sure doesn't seem like it. After every event the car drives straight and my tire wear is great.

[RaNGVR-4]

Originally Posted by Caffeine Slug

Now at each event I just slide the camber plates to the marked spot and adjust the toe on one side of the car (and ignore the crooked steering wheel). It takes maybe five minutes at the beginning and end of an event to change it, if that.

.

That is a good time saving idea for sure. another complaint about changing toe before/after an event is adjustment accuracy. How/what tools make it accurate enough? Right now when i do change toe, i use two riser boards, and one board on top of those fluch with the wheel, and measure front vs back.

[Caffeine Slug]

I don't even measure the toe before or after I adjust it. I just know that I need to turn the tie rod 4.25 turns and it'll be really close to right.