Here are some pics of my water system:

nozzle - the water is mounted within the UCIP to give an axial injection, all the water goes forward and not back into/down the bov pipe.

pump - the aquamist race pump is mounted directly underneath the APS water tank and cold air intake.

hsv - shows the dds3 flow sensor, the high speed valve-hsv (pulses with the fuel injectors and is capable of 250Hz, open/close 250 times per second) and a snubber for the in-cabin water pressure gauge to prevent gauge needle from crazy jumping when pump is active.

accu - water pressure switch is mounted directly on the accumulator. The system stores water at 120psi, its all ready to fire when the hsv is activated @4psi MAP.

Nice pictures Abner. A couple of questions,:

Do you have trust on that water line?, I know I asked you the same question the first time you showed me. I think that line looks vulnerable to heat or any other harm factors like loosing flexibility due to engine heat.

Also, I was talking with PJ about your system. Your system is truly a Sci-Fi Aquamist but in our opinion it has too many sensors and subsystems that could go wrong, in other words, your sustem is way too complex and I fear that more things could go wrong, you know what I mean?

Last but not least, are you going to upgrade your signature? You told me you made 30tq more and also more WHP.

I sent you a PM, where can I get the water gauge you have?, it looks awsome.. I want one:D

Carlos

more pics:

1st pic - shows the whole water system nicely tacked into the front driver side coner of the car

2nd pic - the turbo XS tuner pro is used to log timing/boost/injector duty/MAP.....very helpful tuning tool!

3rd pic - gauge pod showing system water pressure, Aquamist DDS3 and defi mechanical boost gauge.

4th pic - egt bung (swagelok 316SS 1/8" compression fitting to 1/8 NPT) tig welded to a maxford manifold. The thermocouple is a custom made low mass grounded type K used with a Omega handheld digital reader. I have it out when the car is not on the tuning table:)

Special thanks Richard@aquamist for help me figure out how to make the system work with a hallman MBC and other technical issues, my buddy Edwin and Taylor for hardware installation and last but not least, Nick@PrecisionDyno for the water injection tune!

Abner, I was surfing the aquamist site but can't find the dds3 . Also what is the gauge in the top? Where can I get the fancy gauge that you have in the center?
Looks awsome. Is that gauge compatible with the SMC kit?, is it a guage that could be install in any water/alcohol kit or is it a gauge that only works with the Aquamist?

Thanks!!

Carlos

Hey Carlos, all the water lines in the in the engine compartment can stand up to 20bar/~300psi. The water line that goes from the dds3 flow sensor into the UCIP is made of PFA-perfluoroalkoxy, it will withstand a temperature of ~500F/300C.

The whole 2D/DDS3 system is fully integrated; I guess there is no person better than Richard to answer the "too complex/fear of things could go wrong" concern.

I'll update my signature one LAST time in a couple of weeks, just keep an eye out :D

You can get the DDS3 gauge from Steven Clark @ Innovative Automotive - 520-882 2821.
Nice pictures Abner. A couple of questions,:

Do you have trust on that water line?, I know I asked you the same question the first time you showed me. I think that line looks vulnerable to heat or any other harm factors like loosing flexibility due to engine heat.

Also, I was talking with PJ about your system. Your system is truly a Sci-Fi Aquamist but in our opinion it has too many sensors and subsystems that could go wrong, in other words, your sustem is way too complex and I fear that more things could go wrong, you now what I mean?

Last but not least, are you going to upgrade your signature? You told me you made 30tq more and also more WHP.

I sent you a PM, where can I get the water gauge you have?, it looks awsome.. I want one:D

Carlos

Hey Abner the DDS3 looks very nice {thumbup}. Makes my DDS2 look so plain. That's a very nice nozzle injection idea also, kind of looks like the pre-compressor configuration that I've seen on the Aquamist forums. Nice install.

I am begining to think anyone who has delt with Richard has come away impressed with his knowledge and help.

The DDS3 just came out not too long ago so I guess it will be on the website soon.

The top gauge is a glycerin filled water pressure gauge; for monitoring system pressure. The glycerin + the 7micron snubber in the engine compartment stops the gauge needle from dancing crazy when the race pump is working.

The DDS3 gauge can be used on your smc kit, you just have to put it between the nozzle and the pump. One concern tho...since your kit does not have an accumulator to buffer the pressure pulses from the flojet pump...i think the DDS3 flow indicator will be jumping around like what your see on the pressure dial on the brass 90 degree elbow on your ucip...........



Abner, I was surfing the aquamist site but can't find the dds3 . Also what is the gauge in the top? Where can I get the fancy gauge that you have in the center?
Looks awsome. Is that gauge compatible with the SMC kit?, is it a guage that could be install in any water/alcohol kit or is it a gauge that only works with the Aquamist?

Thanks!!

Carlos

{thumbup} Well engineered product + superb customer service!
I am begining to think anyone who has delt with Richard has come away impressed with his knowledge and help.

Hey Carlos, all the water lines in the in the engine compartment can stand up to 20bar/~300psi. The water line that goes from the dds3 flow sensor into the UCIP is made of PFA-perfluoroalkoxy, it will withstand a temperature of ~500F/300C.

The whole 2D/DDS3 system is fully integrated; I guess there is no person better than Richard to answer the "too complex/fear of things could go wrong" concern.

I'll update my signature one LAST time in a couple of weeks, just keep an eye out :D

You can get the DDS3 gauge from Steven Clark @ Innovative Automotive - 520-882 2821.
Thnaks for the info Abner. I know Steve personally from when I use to have my WRX and he use to work on it. Can I ask you how much the guage was so that I have an idea before I go an see him.

I like Steve from IAPERFORMANCE a lot, that guys is very motivated perfecionist, he wouldn't just settle with a job, he settles when the job is just perfect, he does not like shortcuts.

I still have the question to know if your gauge will be compatible with the SMC kit. Do you know?

I laser cut a whole sheet of 316SS and there are so many left. If anyone who is using the aquamist nozzles, and wants one, i'll send you a piece. Just needs 2 "snap-rings", a 2-034 oring to center the whole fixture and 4mm bore thru Swagelok 1/8NPT fitting; good for 500psi and leakproof.

Hey Abner the DDS3 looks very nice {thumbup}. Makes my DDS2 look so plain. That's a very nice nozzle injection idea also, kind of looks like the pre-compressor configuration that I've seen on the Aquamist forums. Nice install.

So what kind of difference did the Aquamist kit make? I'm more interested in water injection than alcohol because of the price and availability of the two.

You mean performance wise? I was not able to do a baseline w/o water injection because the system is inherently safe; with it off or if there is a system fault, it activates a fast acting solenoid between the turbo/wastegate and i cannot boost more than ~12psig. Without the water, i will not be able to run 87 octane gas @23psig.

So what kind of difference did the Aquamist kit make? I'm more interested in water injection than alcohol because of the price and availability of the two.

It made a huge difference on his car. I drove it before and after and it changed the car but don't forget that he had his car tune for countless hours.

The aquamist he is using can be very expensive but in the long range it could be cheaper, you just need to keep the car long enough so that your investement is worth over the time.

I am just speaking from my point of view on his car but I will let him (Slowcar) explain that one more in detail..

lol, countless hours is a bit stretching it:) The car was on the dyno twice, made 311tq/320hp the 1st time, 2nd time, it made 345tq/325hp. The tuner Nick from Precision dyno took his time to tune the car. He looked at the dyno plot/datalog after every pull to make sure it was safe and then goes to work trimming fuel and adding timing.
the 1st time on the dyno, i had 87 octane gas in there....i did not tell Nick because i was afraid he will not tune the car. I read up on water a lot before embarking on this project. i just wanted to see how far water + 87 will go, pull after pull, the car never knocked....I WAS SWEATING BULLETS all the while the car was on the dyno! It was only after the tune that i told him what was in the gas tank. 2nd time on the dyno, still on 87 gas, i was more relaxx....but nevertheless, still sweated a bit:), made 345/325. One thing tho, there was no knock, but the car misfired because i had stock gap 0.027" on the iridiums. Will have the car tuned the last time when he comes back to Phx in Jan - this time with 91, HKS DLI II and a bigger water jet.

I dont see it as expensive, i see it as peace of mind....that the system is capable of looking after itself - will not allow boost past wastegate pressure if ther is something worng with it.

My bumper is no longer black with soot (i got a white evo), spark plugs look new after 3000 miles, alumina part is white, engine oil does not look like black ink....will take a pic and post it here.

It made a huge difference on his car. I drove it before and after and it changed the car but don't forget that he had his car tune for countless hours.

The aquamist he is using can be very expensive but in the long range it could be cheaper, you just need to keep the car long enough so that your investement is worth over the time.

I am just speaking from my point of view on his car but I will let him (Slowcar) explain that one more in detail..

Good write up Abner!!:thumbup:

Thank you! Hey me and Ray are prolly going to Steven's shop tomorrow after work, wanna meet there to hangout?

Good write up Abner!!:thumbup:

We could go out to eat after, Abner, do you like Chinese food?????? NE HOW MA!!!

too much chinese food lately...how about mamas pizza? Wo hao (i'm good), Ni ne (how about you):)

this is a killer thread. Ime thinking about an Aquamist system myself now......

Hello Abner,

Thanks for posting the installation picture, it is very neat install. It is my first time seeing it.

I sometime get confused with screen names, I think you call yourself differeent at the aquamist forum. Are you the one that uses a "noranally open" solenoid valve?

Please keep in touch.

Richard

yeah this is a good thread.

Hi Richard, yes, i'm the one who is using the 3/2 NO high Cv solenoid valve. I'm GotH2O on the aquamist forum :D

Hello Abner,

Thanks for posting the installation picture, it is very neat install. It is my first time seeing it.

I sometime get confused with screen names, I think you call yourself differeent at the aquamist forum. Are you the one that uses a "noranally open" solenoid valve?

Please keep in touch.

Richard

Its a small world !!! :lol:

Hi Richard, yes, i'm the one who is using the 3/2 NO high Cv solenoid valve. I'm GotH2O on the aquamist forum :D

Abner,

I forgot, I like your axial jet mount. Did you make it yourself? If not pass on my praise please - good job.

Are you running pre-turbo?

Richard

I have the Aquamist 2d system and its piece of art. I dont have pics of the underhood install but this is what the rear looks like.

http://socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10647/DSC01980_1.jpg

Carlos,

The DDS3 flow gauge can be scaled to run up to 1 litre per minute on most things it was designed for water, denatured, iso.. and methyl alcohol at any concentration. It has output to switch map (if available), increase boost or cut boost etc.

Here is a link to the description and you can download the user manual there also:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/press

Richard




Abner, I was surfing the aquamist site but can't find the dds3 . Also what is the gauge in the top? Where can I get the fancy gauge that you have in the center?
Looks awsome. Is that gauge compatible with the SMC kit?, is it a guage that could be install in any water/alcohol kit or is it a gauge that only works with the Aquamist?

Thanks!!

Carlos

I have never seen so many aquamist install pictures in one day .... In fact I lonly see them in boxes most of the time.

Thank for sharing it. Another great install.

Richard





I have the Aquamist 2d system and its piece of art. I dont have pics of the underhood install but this is what the rear looks like.

http://socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10647/DSC01980_1.jpg

I have the Aquamist 2d system and its piece of art. I dont have pics of the underhood install but this is what the rear looks like.

http://socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10647/DSC01980_1.jpg
Looks nice. Post some more pictures.

I have never seen so many aquamist install pictures in one day .... In fact I lonly see them in boxes most of the time.

Thank for sharing it. Another great install.

Richard

Thanks Richard. By the way I recieved those seals in the mail today. Thanks again.

Is there any reason why you don't use the tank outlet toward the back of the trunk?
When you acceleratem, water tends to be nearer the back wall of the tank.

Airmail posting normally take longer, I am glad you have received the seals so soon.

Richard

Is there any reason why you don't use the tank outlet toward the back of the trunk?
When you acceleratem, water tends to be nearer the back wall of the tank.

Airmail posting normally take longer, I am glad you have received the seals so soon.

Richard

The tank has antislosh foam in it so either outlet would be alright.

Richard, Manny, my colleague from work help me with the design and dimensional tolerence on the "mercedes emblem" mount and drawing it out on autocad for laser cutting. He is on EvoM and goes by SaiKou-Kun.
I was thinking of the pre-turbo injection....but the idea of mist hitting the Ti compressor blades @~150000rpm........ :updown:

Abner,

I forgot, I like your axial jet mount. Did you make it yourself? If not pass on my praise please - good job.

Are you running pre-turbo?

Richard

Hi gofaster87, very clean install {thumbup} Are you running 6mm line from the back all the way to the front? Also r u running just water or water/R-OH mix?
I have the Aquamist 2d system and its piece of art. I dont have pics of the underhood install but this is what the rear looks like.

http://socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10647/DSC01980_1.jpg

Richard, Manny, my colleague from work help me with the design and dimensional tolerence on the "mercedes emblem" mount and drawing it out on autocad for laser cutting. He is on EvoM and goes by SaiKou-Kun.
I was thinking of the pre-turbo injection....but the idea of mist hitting the Ti compressor blades @~150000rpm........ :updown:
Abner, the pre-compressor injection has me also intrigued. I'm wondering how much more effective it would make our Aquamist systems.

Richard, how much more effective is (pre-turbo injection + regular injection) vs. regular injection?

Hi Joe, we'll know when Richard replys :)
Abner, the pre-compressor injection has me also intrigued. I'm wondering how much more effective it would make our Aquamist systems.

I think the charge-cooling effect would be lessened. There is a rapid evaporation when hitting the hot air of the compressed charge that would not be there. You would create steam running into ambiant air and compressing after.

Abner,

I haven't yet set up the data logging equipment on the pre-turbo injection but I have the following dyno plot when the PTI is switched on (darker traces), notice the change in afr - I don't know exactly what actually happened, but it has made a marked difference. It will be one of the winter projects.

I also have other plots done on the same engine such as port injection etc.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/gtart/pre-turbo+base.jpg

I can post them if you want me to.

Theris a long discussion on the merit of PTI on the following link:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=267

Richard







Richard, how much more effective is (pre-turbo injection + regular injection) vs. regular injection?

Hi Joe, we'll know when Richard replys :)

Very Nice pics!

Hi Richard, looks like the onset of PTI was ~4800rpm? What is the water to fuel ratio injected and is it water alone or water/MeOH mixture?
Abner,

I haven't yet set up the data logging equipment on the pre-turbo injection but I have the following dyno plot when the PTI is switched on (darker traces), notice the change in afr - I don't know exactly what actually happened, but it has made a marked difference. It will be one of the winter projects.

I also have other plots done on the same engine such as port injection etc.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/gtart/pre-turbo+base.jpg

I can post them if you want me to.

Theris a long discussion on the merit of PTI on the following link:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=267

Richard

I think he was using a 50/50 mix. Richard, I would like to try the pre-compressor injection set up. Would you recommend a .3mm or .4mm nozzle before the compressor? All I would need purchase is a mount to attach the injection nozzle to the 16G.

The WI mixture was 50/50 methanol, there are no other modifications apart from running 0.3mm jet on each turbo. The dyno plot was done within 20 minutes of each other.

The 0.3mm jet has amiximum flow of 75ml/min, so at 80% FI duty cycle, it was only flowing 60cc/min or less (less manifold pressure).

I was surprised to see the leaning effect of the afr, without any changes. The injection rate was minute compared to the power output.

The jet mount wqs specially made for this project, we haven't a plan to marketing it as a saleable item.

What is the OD of the G16 turbo flange? next time we make a few, I include one for you. It will be after Christmas.

Richard


I think he was using a 50/50 mix. Richard, I would like to try the pre-compressor injection set up. Would you recommend a .3mm or .4mm nozzle before the compressor? All I would need purchase is a mount to attach the injection nozzle to the 16G.

I need to get a hold of some measuring calipers to give you that answer. Anybody out there that may know the answer? Also Richard, does the water activation point need to be changed with the pre-compressor injection? Right now my water mix is activated at 13 PSI, that seems to be the optimum for my set-up at the moment.

I am new to pre-turbo injection so I am not sure the best activation point.
13psi seemd eo be a good point.

The skyline's activation point is set by HKS V-pro, 4500 rpm and at 1 bar - I think.

Richard




I need to get a hold of some measuring calipers to give you that answer. Anybody out there that may know the answer? Also Richard, does the water activation point need to be changed with the pre-compressor injection? Right now my water mix is activated at 13 PSI, that seems to be the optimum for my set-up at the moment.

since you started this.. :D

my install..
1stly gotta give due recognition to richard for his unwavering customer support..
my aquamist was installed 2 years ago.. and bad placement + hi heat caused a failure in parts of my system which richard fixed or sent parts or replaced them!

now i'm happy to say everything is working well n reliable again.. except for one more issue ;) how to adjust the mf2

richard if you are reading this, a big THANK YOU as I track my car and use it as daily driver..

oh yes talk about best of both worlds..mind you i drive an evo!!

sti spec c tank in the boot (12L for 15 min laps 330cc/min 3 race before refill)
mount my pump, manifold and hsv in the intake box
lid closed, only telltale sign is a tube near the bend towards the tb
lastly dds3

Hi Gunzo, .......Evo 7! {thumbup}

yes a 7 :D

u in u of a or asu? was at tucson on and off from 2000 till 2002.. know a bunch of good friends from there :)

yes a 7 :D

u in u of a or asu? was at tucson on and off from 2000 till 2002.. know a bunch of good friends from there :)

U of A:)
I was initially wanting to get the same water tank as you....but change my mind b/c it has STI on it :D Sweet setup {thumbup}

Sorry to drag this back up after several months guys, but what wire did you tap into with the MF2 for the coil input plz?

Thanks.

Sorry to drag this back up after several months guys, but what wire did you tap into with the MF2 for the coil input plz?

Thanks.
You can get an answer quicker by emailing your question to Richard@Aquamist.co.uk :beer:

are you looking for the same wire that the FIA2 uses? a signal for the injector?

I'm actually in conversation with Richard, but since this is EVO specific, I thought I would check with others that have already installed in their evo.

This is simply an RPM signal to the MF2 so that it can do 3d mapping for the water injection. Since our cars are 4 cylinder, but with 2 coils, it seems to me that if we tell it we have a 4 cylinder, it would think we really have a 2 cylinder, since it only signal's each coil two times per revolution...

I'll experiment with it today. There are LED's that show how many rpm's it thinks are spinning, so I should be able to determine myself what it is doing.

I hooked most of the stuff up last night, & it just needs the MAP sensor, & the rpm signal, & it should be ready to run.

set it to variable and then turn the variable resistor to read 2 stroke engine :D

Bringing it back....

Slowcar, where did you get the tank you are using in front? Do you like it and where can I find out about antislosh foam..... is it just a foam brick that sits in the tank to prevent the fluid from sloshing? It seems that wouldn't help a ton with the front-to-back issue.

Details man! :)

also, would it be stupid to use a container like the STi one (rearmounted, however large) and have that feed a smaller tank in front by suction alone? IE: would you be overworking the pump trying to draw in fluid from the rear tank and pressurize the system in front of the pump or would it be just as easy for it?
...in the end this could provide for a near endless supply of liquid (or more than enough for a long road race) and allow you to keep your stock washer bottle if you used a front bottle similar to slowcar's

Bringing it back....
also, would it be stupid to use a container like the STi one (rearmounted, however large) and have that feed a smaller tank in front by suction alone? IE: would you be overworking the pump trying to draw in fluid from the rear tank and pressurize the system in front of the pump or would it be just as easy for it?
...in the end this could provide for a near endless supply of liquid (or more than enough for a long road race) and allow you to keep your stock washer bottle if you used a front bottle similar to slowcar's

You would have to ensure the front container is sealed tight so that suction can happen .. The other one would be to use gravity .. but again it's subjective since you'll be throwing the car around the track alot .. you'd probably need a float sensor in the smaller tank to indicate a low condition as you can possibly cause a degradation in suction and feed purely from the smaller tank instead..

Run a booster pump from the back tank to the front .. and from there use the main pump to draw the fluid to be injected ..

If the booster pump can supply more fluid .. then you don't have to worry about running out of fluid (unless the tank's empty) .. if the main pump draws more fluid .. then pressure differential will actually suck the fluid out from the pump itself much like a bypass .. you're safe either way .. compared to a smaller tank in front .. not to mention the headache involved in plumbing .. :cool:

Define your 'long race' .. My 3Gallon container can sustain a 24 minutes race easy at a flowrate of 500cc/min (which is ALOT of fluid to spray) :p {thumbup}

The standard containers only hold about 1 gallon of fluid .. :lol:

hmmm... so with an additional 1gallon at the front that would be 32minutes near flat out!.... I wonder if you could cross the state of Iowa in that much time......

:) I like the idea of adding a booster pump, I don't know how hard it would be to set it up so the pump would trip at sayyyyy 1/2 small tank and run for 10 seconds or however long it would take to fill the small tank a reasonable amount.

In th end the plumbing would be a little complicated, but not much more than a pair of wires and an extra line. My interest lies in keeping the system in the front of the car, but more importantly filling up a tank 1/4 as many times. Guess the stuff isn't much lighter than water though :/

hmmm... so with an additional 1gallon at the front that would be 32minutes near flat out!.... I wonder if you could cross the state of Iowa in that much time......

:) I like the idea of adding a booster pump, I don't know how hard it would be to set it up so the pump would trip at sayyyyy 1/2 small tank and run for 10 seconds or however long it would take to fill the small tank a reasonable amount.

In th end the plumbing would be a little complicated, but not much more than a pair of wires and an extra line. My interest lies in keeping the system in the front of the car, but more importantly filling up a tank 1/4 as many times. Guess the stuff isn't much lighter than water though :/

:lol: don't think so .. flow rate is around 8gph or so if you're spraying that amount ..

There's a circuit diagram done up by Richard L from aquamist that you probably can adapt it to your float switch .. think all you need to do is increase the size of the capacitor and it'll probably be able to extend it to 20s .. the 1 I did based on his inputs triggers for additional 3sec only ..

If you're doing autox .. you'd be better off putting the weight at the back for better weight distribution ;)