tuning by turbine color with E85

94AWDcoupe · Aug 11, 2009, 07:49 AM

Tuning by turbine wheel color

first look at wheel tuned on E85. This was at 11/1 on gas WB. EGT were low in 750C range. the wideband is new so I am sure its reading correctly. I tried leaning to 12 and beyond but butt dyno felt slower. Now I am thinking it needs even more fuel. maybe 10.5 range.

inco9nito99 · Aug 11, 2009, 11:01 AM

...are you a stripper? :P.

Yeah that does look a little hot. Although the general consensus is to tune by wideband, I personally like the 70-90mph test and won't go any leaner than 12.0.

GST Motorsports · Aug 11, 2009, 12:27 PM

Are you basing the color of that wheel on how much carbon you should be seeing? (from your experience with normal gasoline)

-Bryan

mrfred · Aug 11, 2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94AWDcoupe

Tuning by turbine wheel color

first look at wheel tuned on E85. This was at 11/1 on gas WB. EGT were low in 750C range. the wideband is new so I am sure its reading correctly. I tried leaning to 12 and beyond but butt dyno felt slower. Now I am thinking it needs even more fuel. maybe 10.5 range.
...

Not sure if E85 is going to produce the same color variations as gasoline, and wouldn't the turbine color be a combination of all driving conditions?

Your experience with E85 AFR is contrary to nearly everyone else's experience. Leaner seems to be working better for nearly everyone else.

GST Motorsports · Aug 12, 2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GST Motorsports

Are you basing the color of that wheel on how much carbon you should be seeing? (from your experience with normal gasoline)

-Bryan

btw, I'm not challenging you 94AWD, just opening up discussion.

(I'm getting sick of having to post this disclaimer, so is life)

94AWDcoupe · Aug 12, 2009, 07:26 AM

I dont have the answers. I was just making a friendly observation. I am not so sure that the 12/1 target is ideal. There are some targeting 11/1 with excellent results. This is my first run with E85. I will have better data when car goes back together.

GST Motorsports · Aug 12, 2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94AWDcoupe

I dont have the answers. I was just making a friendly observation. I am not so sure that the 12/1 target is ideal. There are some targeting 11/1 with excellent results. This is my first run with E85. I will have better data when car goes back together.

Yea I've tried really rich mixtures and the car just feels soft and unresponsive. I haven't seen much gains from 11.5 to 12.5 on the dyno other than trace knock cleaning up with the leaner mixture, and large difference in feel and response on the street.

In the 10's the mixture gets hard to light in my experience

project_skyline · Aug 12, 2009, 12:18 PM

11:1 has always just produced a whole lot of knock and no power. 12:1 ftw. lol

Colt4g63 · Aug 12, 2009, 02:40 PM

Mid 12s FTW

0xDEAD · Aug 14, 2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt4g63

Mid 12s FTW

At least.........

grillpt · Aug 14, 2009, 07:36 PM

I've never ran E85 but from the pics I've seen on here it def burns a lot cleaner than normal gas. I would imagine that is just a product of being alcohol... I wouldn't be worried...

PeteyTurbo · Aug 15, 2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94AWDcoupe

Tuning by turbine wheel color

first look at wheel tuned on E85. This was at 11/1 on gas WB. EGT were low in 750C range. the wideband is new so I am sure its reading correctly. I tried leaning to 12 and beyond but butt dyno felt slower. Now I am thinking it needs even more fuel. maybe 10.5 range.

In my Experience with E85, if you try to tune a car to 10.5, especially at higher airflow, you will be much more likely to get misfire, and will be more demanding of the ignition system. I have logged decent gains on a dyno leaning out from mid to low 11's by as much as 20hp with no other changes, which could also be in part to do with a more complete combustion.. I have ran cars up 13.1 on E85 with no ill effects including high EGT's, but overall power went down a bit at that mixture. My turbine wheel looks identical to yours and I do not run it very lean anymore by my standards but others may consider it a bit lean

MY 02 housing is so clean inside you can eat off of it, and the inside of my manifold has no carbon deposits for the most part, it got cleaned so well that all you see is a bit of surface rust from the iron lol

IMHO I wouldn't rely on the color of the components running E85 naerly as much as I would with gas..

DJ Brett B · Aug 15, 2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grillpt

I've never ran E85 but from the pics I've seen on here it def burns a lot cleaner than normal gas. I would imagine that is just a product of being alcohol... I wouldn't be worried...

I know running a bunch of alcohol through MY system really cleans things out... whisky $hits FTL

03whitegsr · Aug 15, 2009, 11:06 PM

Man, I have to wonder if our local blend is different then what most get or something.

Most people here have better success keeping to the low 11s on E85, 20 PSI or 45 PSI, doesn't seem to matter. Going into the 12s ends in lower power and a detonation prone tune almost every time.

mrfred · Aug 16, 2009, 01:03 AM

Sounds like its low on alcohol. Par for the course in Utah? :-) Or perhaps really crappy gasoline is used in the blend. Most places blend with 87/88 octane, but maybe they use 85 octane or something.