Mod advice sought on E85

[Jim in Tucson]

I’m posting this in the Alt Fuel forum, as I’m especially looking for input from active E85 users and tuners. My current mods are:

BR cone filter
BR SS MAF pipe
Hallman MBC
APS dual vent BOV/DV
Helix down pipe
Helix test pipe
Greddy EVO2 cat-back (modified to full 3”)
HKS 264/264 cams
Nisei LICP
Walbro 255Lph fuel pump
IX turbo
PPI ported exhaust manifold
SS ‘eBay’ O2 housing
ETS 3” FMIC
1,000cc RC injectors
E85 tune by Scot Gray
394whp/418trq at 28psi on RRE Dyno Pack ???

My primary objective is torque. As you can see on the dyno graph, by about 3,600 rpms I’m already hitting 400 ft lbs. Engine is very responsive. Runs great; no issues. Car is street only. Daily driver. Always puts a smile on my face.

My questions: Are there any current mods that could better serve by being replaced? Are there any mods I’m missing?

What I’m considering:
1. Upgraded wastegate can. Either Forge or FP. I’m leaning toward the FP WGA. Questions: Will an 18 lb can increase torque, or mostly HP? Will spool-up be improved at all?
2. Coil on plug–COP. I’m liking the low-tech Spark Tech setup. COP w/o CDI. Right now my plugs are gapped at 0.018”. I assume with the COP I could run a wider gap. Would that add any measurable torque? I’m guessing, “No”.
3. I’m frustrated with my DV/BOV situation. I have a collection of these. I thought the very expensive APS was the be all end all. Meh!!! I’m considering the also very expensive Works-improved OEM DV, especially since it is on "sale". Appreciate any input.
4. Thinking about converting to ECU boost control. This might broaden the torque plateau, especially considering what Tephra has planned for Ver 6. What do you’ll think?

What I’m not considering:
1. Cams. Yes, I know bigger cams would give me more HP. However, I doubt that another cam can give me substantially more torque. But I’m open to input on this one.
2. Turbo. Pretty much the same comments as cams. Turbos are even more
expensive, and I’m not sure I would get any substantial torque bump. But I’m open…
3. Long-tube header. High rpm HP only, me thinks. Although, I’m watching the development of the short-tube header market. <yawn> The Nasty Habanero.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Jim

[ROGERV]

The only thing I can think of is a upgraded wastegte and ported throttle body. You pretty much have everything else.
This is my dyno graph (since then I now hold 24psi at 7k)

[purevibez]

ported IM, 65mm TB, a bigger set of cams. for torque id leave the 9 turbo in place diiirk made 480 something on his green at 30psi, awd m did a car with a 2.3 and stock 9 turbo that made over 500ft lbs by 3500rpm. if you love torque jim stay 9 turbo. the fp reg will help you hold some kinda decent boost. i could hold 24 psi to redline. so it should help with your torque across the band. good luck sir

[Rnm]

How about an 02 dump, unless you aren't a fan of loud cars under WOT...

[JohnBradley]

My suggestion would be more boost down low, so I guess the ECU based boost control or a good electronic aftermarket to give you the big initial spike and keep the creep down to a minimum.

To me, 30-31psi seems to be the sweet spot for me, but it creeps so my peak torque is occuring rather high in the RPM. It still makes good torque across but since its a function of boost and low rpm its not as high as it could be.

[skiracer]

http://www.socalevo.net/forum/index.php?topic=68381.0

FP Red on E85 = 489whp, 447 torque on dynojet here on SoCal
so here is my graph
my car has-
K&N drop in
aps bov
No Name licp
FP Red @ 29-30psi comes with 18psi wastegate *that u can hear opening its pretty cool*
WOT 65mm TB
HKS 272/272 in/ex cams
megan o2 housing
HKS 2.75" downpipe
No Name 3" test pipe
Works 3" cat back
RC Engineering 1200cc injectors
single walbro 255lph fuel pump
ebay intercooler

[mrfred]

I've never heard anything good about the Buschur MAF pipe, but that's perhaps a sideshow to your discussion.

Are you not able to dial in any more boost with the MBC? If no, then maybe an aftermarket WGA is a solution. ECU-based boost control might help too.

My other suggestion would be to consider the Magnus intake manifold. It probably won't do much for peak torque, but the area under the overall gains look to be well worth it if its possible to use this IM in a daily driver with the factory emissions gear.

[oldevodude]

Originally Posted by Jim in Tucson

I’m posting this in the Alt Fuel forum, as I’m especially looking for input from active E85 users and tuners. My current mods are:

BR cone filter
BR SS MAF pipe
Hallman MBC
APS dual vent BOV/DV
Helix down pipe
Helix test pipe
Greddy EVO2 cat-back (modified to full 3”)
HKS 264/264 cams
Nisei LICP
Walbro 255Lph fuel pump
IX turbo
PPI ported exhaust manifold
SS ‘eBay’ O2 housing
ETS 3” FMIC
1,000cc RC injectors
E85 tune by Scot Gray
394whp/418trq at 28psi on RRE Dyno Pack ???

My primary objective is torque. As you can see on the dyno graph, by about 3,600 rpms I’m already hitting 400 ft lbs. Engine is very responsive. Runs great; no issues. Car is street only. Daily driver. Always puts a smile on my face.

My questions: Are there any current mods that could better serve by being replaced? Are there any mods I’m missing?

What I’m considering:
1. Upgraded wastegate can. Either Forge or FP. I’m leaning toward the FP WGA. Questions: Will an 18 lb can increase torque, or mostly HP? Will spool-up be improved at all?
2. Coil on plug–COP. I’m liking the low-tech Spark Tech setup. COP w/o CDI. Right now my plugs are gapped at 0.018”. I assume with the COP I could run a wider gap. Would that add any measurable torque? I’m guessing, “No”.
3. I’m frustrated with my DV/BOV situation. I have a collection of these. I thought the very expensive APS was the be all end all. Meh!!! I’m considering the also very expensive Works-improved OEM DV, especially since it is on "sale". Appreciate any input.
4. Thinking about converting to ECU boost control. This might broaden the torque plateau, especially considering what Tephra has planned for Ver 6. What do you’ll think?

What I’m not considering:
1. Cams. Yes, I know bigger cams would give me more HP. However, I doubt that another cam can give me substantially more torque. But I’m open to input on this one.
2. Turbo. Pretty much the same comments as cams. Turbos are even more
expensive, and I’m not sure I would get any substantial torque bump. But I’m open…
3. Long-tube header. High rpm HP only, me thinks. Although, I’m watching the development of the short-tube header market. <yawn> The Nasty Habanero.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Jim

The COP isn't going to do much especially if you are not having any spark issues currently.

The wastegate will not do much unless current one is not functioning properly. (have you tried adjusting it)

I have read on the forums that some prefer the Forge wastegate over FP
(I am waiting for Red with FP Actuator currently fwiw)

I crushed the stock 9 diverter valve and it holds 30 psi now. LOL bought APS used and it was functioning like a "pop off" valve. At 24 psi the valve would blow completely open and all pressure was lost. A longer bolt to tension the spring would help but I am considering the synapse BOV possibly myself although stock crushed 9 is doing the job with little surge due to spring now so tight at low mid boost it doesn't fully release (how can a spring be perfect enough to hold 30 psi but still release from 19-22 of vacuum?.

Bang for buck and a substantial increase or a good ratio is why I bit the bullet and ordered a FP Red. While I will lose some down low the gains up top and mid band are what sold me.

Cams done right (new springs retainers keepers IMO) cost almost as much as turbo upgrade. I'm skipping cams and might do them later

Good Luck on your decisions and sometimes I wich I could just be happy at whatever power level and leave it at that. lol

Sometimes I think it's more for the sake of the mod than the actual NEED for the mod

[Jim in Tucson]

Originally Posted by JohnBradley

My suggestion would be more boost down low, ...to give you the big initial spike... To me, 30-31psi seems to be the sweet spot for me, ...

Caveats: stock block, no head studs.
Questions: (1) Is it safe to turn up the wick to 30-31 as long as the tune is knock free? (2) I thought there were only minimal gains beyond 28 psi on the IX turbo; is that not the case?

[Jim in Tucson]

Originally Posted by mrfred

I've never heard anything good about the Buschur MAF pipe, but that's perhaps a sideshow to your discussion.

I think the debate was mostly centered around whether it should provide a suction point for the valve cover vent. David says, "no" and a lot of members say dumping that metered air plays havoc with the transition from driving to idle. I knew the risks, and bought the item used. I've had no negative issues, however, it may be exacerbating my ongoing DV flutter issue.

Originally Posted by mrfred

Are you not able to dial in any more boost with the MBC? If no, then maybe an aftermarket WGA is a solution. ECU-based boost control might help too.

See my above reply to Aaron. Yes, I can increase the boost with the MBC. I've not tried to see how high it will boost, however. My boost gauge 'only' goes up to 30psi. I have turned it up to 31 a few times, until I chicken out.

Originally Posted by mrfred

My other suggestion would be to consider the Magnus intake manifold. It probably won't do much for peak torque, but the area under the overall gains look to be well worth it if its possible to use this IM in a daily driver with the factory emissions gear.

Like cams and turbo, intake manifold is really more money that I want to throw at the car, at least for right now. Maybe after the EVO owner's bailout package is passed by congress, I'll feel differently!

[JohnBradley]

Well sweet spot and efficiency dont always coincide with whats still possible. For instance there were a few IXs when they first were released that ran a 36psi spike and made over 500 ft lbs. Lucas ran 34 when he made 515/500 ftlbs and the 506/472 was done at 31-32 as I recall.

I am running 30+ on E85 with stock rod bolts and head studs and 41k. I will admit that maybe I have a golden goose, but its done this for the last 36,000. I have revved it over 8500 a handful of times, free boosted the Green, free boosted the stocker, had a WG line burn through and peg on pumpgas (didnt realise what was going on for about 4 seconds until the knocklight went bezerk), and through all of it I havent stretched a head bolt or huffed a rod.

Maybe I am lucky, I would like to just think I am that good but I know better

[Jim in Tucson]

Originally Posted by oldevodude

The COP isn't going to do much especially if you are not having any spark issues currently.

That was kind of my thought as well.

Originally Posted by oldevodude

The wastegate will not do much unless current one is not functioning properly. (have you tried adjusting it)

Yes, it is as tight as I could get it.

Originally Posted by oldevodude

I have read on the forums that some prefer the Forge wastegate over FP
(I am waiting for Red with FP Actuator currently fwiw)

I was so disappointed with my Forge DV, I don't think I could bring myself to buy the Forge WGA.

Originally Posted by oldevodude

I crushed the stock 9 diverter valve and it holds 30 psi now.

GULP! I simply can't bring myself to put a perfectly good valve in a vice and treat it like a walnut.

Originally Posted by oldevodude

LOL bought APS used and it was functioning like a "pop off" valve...

The "lubricant" in my APS eventually turned to a wax like substance causing the valve to act up. I cleaned it out good and lubed it with anti-seize. That blew out in short order. Now I simply put a few drops of motor oil into the open valve port each week.

Originally Posted by oldevodude

Bang for buck and a substantial increase or a good ratio is why I bit the bullet and ordered a FP Red. While I will lose some down low the gains up top and mid band are what sold me.

I might enjoy a bigger turbo, but I'm simply unwilling to spend any big money on this car. Had I known I would be going with E85, I don't think I would have even upgraded from the VIII turbo to the IX turbo.

Originally Posted by oldevodude

sometimes I wish I could just be happy at whatever power level and leave it at that.

[SparkTech]

Our Non-cdi 4 individual High Powered COP WILL add 8-10whp simply by switching from factory coils. It was proven in back to back dyno testing on a very lightly modded Evo 8.

There is a BIG misconception that there is NO power to be had in a more powerful ignition system. EVERY and ALL of our testing has proven that theory WRONG. Along with a cleaner power band there are also the driveblilty benifits. With a plug gap at .018 and even heard of some people running .015, the cars low speed driveability suffers drastically. There is also proof of less knock with a properly engineered system. A car doesn't have to exhibit misfire to benefit from more ignition energy.

Stay tuned as we will be heading back to the dyno and will post ignition logs, comparing stock coils vs non-cdi vs Pro-cdi systems.

Ignition is the MOST overlooked aspect of the average build.

[mrfred]

Originally Posted by Jim in Tucson

...

GULP! I simply can't bring myself to put a perfectly good valve in a vice and treat it like a walnut.

...

You could try the Dejon Tool stop leak DV. Its a IX DV with some additional hardware that allows the valve to easily hold 35 psi (I'm sure Dejon would say much more) while still having completely normal daily driving characteristics.

[skiracer]

I cranked my boost up to 30-32PSI on the dyno with my IX turbo and it had no significant increase in power compared to 28psi. Might be different situations for others, but just my personal experience.