Thanks RRE for Stage 1E (E85) 383whp/ 383 tq V5 Tephra mod - Page 3

mrfred · Jun 4, 2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sEvoIXnTurboS2k

I didn't think you could use 750cc injectors with E85. I thought 1000cc injectors were the minimum size?

Lots of variability. Some people say they are hitting 90+% IDC on the stock turbo and 1000 cc/min injectors. Others are hitting 90% IDC with Greens and 1000 cc/min injectors. 1000 cc/min is definitely safe for the stock turbo.

skiracer · Jun 4, 2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in Tucson

skiracer,

You state that you have the RRE E85 Stage 1 with 1,000cc injectors.
In the E85 Stages thread RRE lists their Stage 1 as having 750cc injectors.
Please clarify.

What is a "Zeitronix stage Eleventeen"?

Thanks,
Jim

I think RRE says that most of their customers are already running 720 or 750 injectors. So, if you want an E85 tune, you can still use your existing 720 or 750 injectors and don't have to waste your money on bigger injectors. I was actually running E85 on Denso 660 injectors for about 4 months prior to getting 1000cc injectors and it ran pretty good. I think their point is the further gains from 1000cc injectors would not offset the cost of buying new injectors. I guess if you want to be "optimally" tuned for E85 or plan to go bigger turbo down the road, then 1000cc is the way to go. I think their philosophy is "bring wucha got" and they'll make a decision after the datalogging/tuning to determine if you really need biggier injectors

On my 1000cc, i'm around 70ish% injector duty cycle on E85. On 91 octane, i'm around 50ish% injector duty cycle

Zeitornix "Stage Eleventeen" here at the bottom of this page:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/wideband.htm

skiracer · Jun 12, 2008, 01:00 AM

I was really bored and had a full tank of E85 in my car. So, i decided to see how many miles i can go if i baby the car. I drove from West LA to Willow Springs and drove back home and then some trying to maintain 70MPH and staying off boost (my gps says i did 67MPH avg) . The drive to Willow Springs, once you get on the 14N, is a LOT of long uphill highways. So, i was probably boosting anywhere fromn 0-5psi on the long uphill stretches. However, on the way home it was a lot of downhill driving.

I drove until my fuel light came on and drove for 10 about more minutes (245 miles on trip) and i filled up my tank with gas again (12.1 gallons).

According to my fuzzy math
245 miles / 12.1 gallons gas added to tank = 20.24MPG

I probably could've squeezed more MPG if i picked some flatter roads to drive on...and yes i really do need a life

cpoevo · Jun 12, 2008, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSP-Ralliart

You do understand that the Dynapacks are a water break dyno right? Which means that they are the most accurate dyno around. Dynojets, Mustangs, etc.. are no where near as accurate. If you don't believe me then go to their site and question them. Don't assume about dynos without knowing how they opperate.

Plus there is no tire slip on a dynapack.

Incorrect, DynoJet is the most accurate reading dyno because you are rotating an exact known weight and circumference to calculate TQ and HP.
DD, MD, DP all use applied load through eddy current, water brake, or hydraulics to apply a calculated load than can be off.
Oh and as for water brakes I have seen of the largest in the world used on a 70,000 shp steam turbine engine and thay are strictly a calculated load not a known load.

cpoevo · Jun 12, 2008, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sEvoIXnTurboS2k

I didn't think you could use 750cc injectors with E85. I thought 1000cc injectors were the minimum size?

I would definitely use 1000inj. I have PTE 780 and on 91 i am at about 83% IDC and that is with 11.2 AFR. I am not saying you cant use smaller injectors, I just wouldnt do it.

mrfred · Jun 12, 2008, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpoevo

I would definitely use 1000inj. I have PTE 780 and on 91 i am at about 83% IDC and that is with 11.2 AFR. I am not saying you cant use smaller injectors, I just wouldnt do it.

What are your 780s scaling to?

cpoevo · Jun 12, 2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfred

What are your 780s scaling to?

It is either 696 or 713.

mrfred · Jun 12, 2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpoevo

It is either 696 or 713.

Yeah, those are not quite large enough to make full use of E85.

skiracer · Jun 18, 2008, 10:15 AM

I was really bored and had a full tank of E85 in my car. So, i decided to see how many miles i can go if i baby the car. I drove from West LA to Willow Springs and drove back home and then some trying to maintain 70MPH and staying off boost (my gps says i did 67MPH avg) . The drive to Willow Springs, once you get on the 14N, is a LOT of long uphill highways. So, i was probably boosting anywhere fromn 0-5psi on the long uphill stretches. However, on the way home it was a lot of downhill driving.

I drove until my fuel light came on and drove for 10 about more minutes (245 miles on trip) and i filled up my tank with gas again (12.1 gallons).

According to my fuzzy math
245 miles / 12.1 gallons gas added to tank = 20.24MPG

I probably could've squeezed more MPG if i picked some flatter roads to drive on...and yes i really do need a life

RyeLou · Jun 19, 2008, 08:32 AM

How does the switch work on the stock ECU? I'd like something similar but have gotten mixed responses saying it's only doable on an AEM EMS to have an actual switch like that. What does the switch activate/deactivate to go from one to the other? Obviously it would change boost, or do you change that seperatly from the tune switch?

mrfred · Jun 19, 2008, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyeLou

How does the switch work on the stock ECU? I'd like something similar but have gotten mixed responses saying it's only doable on an AEM EMS to have an actual switch like that. What does the switch activate/deactivate to go from one to the other? Obviously it would change boost, or do you change that seperatly from the tune switch?

It works great with the factory ECU, and its only going to get better. I found a spare ADC (0-5V signal) input on the factory ECU. A toggle switch is wired up so that this input sees either 0 V or 5 V. tephra has recoded the ECU so that the ECU will choose between two sets of maps depending on which voltage it reads at the this ADC input. The maps right now include timing, fuel, boost, and I believe injector scaling. We may expand this range of maps, and for sure we will eventually setup interpolation between the two maps based on input voltage so that a flex fuel composition sensor can be wired up the ECU to make the Evo a true flex fuel vehicle.

skiracer · Jun 19, 2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfred

It works great with the factory ECU, and its only going to get better. I found a spare ADC (0-5V signal) input on the factory ECU. A toggle switch is wired up so that this input sees either 0 V or 5 V. tephra has recoded the ECU so that the ECU will choose between two sets of maps depending on which voltage it reads at the this ADC input. The maps right now include timing, fuel, boost, and I believe injector scaling. We may expand this range of maps, and for sure we will eventually setup interpolation between the two maps based on input voltage so that a flex fuel composition sensor can be wired up the ECU to make the Evo a true flex fuel vehicle.

Yes it includes alternate set of injector scalings as well. You can setup the switch to switch to a different map on the fly for methanol injection as well. If you have a manual boost controller, you have to twist the knob yourself.

RyeLou · Jun 19, 2008, 03:40 PM

I really like the idea of the switch for the stock ECU. Buschur refuses to have anything to do with it. I'm waiting to hear back from AMS. I'm about 6 hours from AMS, so we'll see. There isn't really anyone else close enough to help me as far as I know. Mellon is about 10 hours away.

You could have a dual stage manual boost controller and that would work alright. I actually have something similar to this sitting around from my SRT. I guess it's technically electric..?

http://ee-enhanced.com/

That might work and could be mounted out of the way too. Hmm...

mplspilot · Jun 19, 2008, 04:14 PM

Haha, i guess i have stage eleventeen Zeitronix

)

In this whole debate about injector size, don't forget that the better you make your engine flow air by doing mods, the more fuel you will need. The more air you flow at high RPM's the bigger the IDC's. So you may get away with smaller injectors now, but if you plan to keep modding and increasing power, you'll eventually start seeing high IDC's on smaller injectors.

IDC's in a way is a good estimate of power being made, so boasting about low IDC's on small injectors on similar AFR'ed (hehe new verb) and similar turbo'ed set-ups means you're just making less power. (It's tricky with E85 though, because of blends - higher ethanol content will obviously lead to higher IDC's)

skiracer · Jun 19, 2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyeLou

I really like the idea of the switch for the stock ECU. Buschur refuses to have anything to do with it. I'm waiting to hear back from AMS. I'm about 6 hours from AMS, so we'll see. There isn't really anyone else close enough to help me as far as I know. Mellon is about 10 hours away.

You could have a dual stage manual boost controller and that would work alright. I actually have something similar to this sitting around from my SRT. I guess it's technically electric..?

http://ee-enhanced.com/

That might work and could be mounted out of the way too. Hmm...

The V5 software is kinda buggy from what i hear. Maybe that's why Buschur is not doing that flash for customers. but i think RRE's was able to work out the bugs...