Lets See your E85 EvoX Timing Maps
May 21, 2010, 01:24 PM
#1
Lets See your E85 EvoX Timing Maps
I'm interested to see some people's E85 timing maps. Mine is nothing special for the X... just a gradual ~3-4* bump near redline.
I need some more time to tune but I figured I would get this thread going since it helped people out on the CT9A so much.
So, whip em out!
I need some more time to tune but I figured I would get this thread going since it helped people out on the CT9A so much.
So, whip em out!
Aug 26, 2010, 09:44 PM
#3
Bumping this with a link to the other thread so people can get an idea of what worked on the CT9A: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...ming-maps.html
I'd like to keep this to fully tuned maps if possible, and though being specific to e85 is ideal... I wouldn't mind the pump maps for a comparison.
I'd like to keep this to fully tuned maps if possible, and though being specific to e85 is ideal... I wouldn't mind the pump maps for a comparison.
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Feb 9, 2015, 01:59 PM
#8
I kept ticking it up and stopped here. I can still get good pulls with only 1-2 counts so I stopped. Might be able to go higher. shooting for 12:1 (gasoline AFR) on E85 at 28psi on the stock turbo.
didn't see anyone else post theirs. I know this is very high compared to my 8 but I'm not aware of what the "norm" is for the X.
didn't see anyone else post theirs. I know this is very high compared to my 8 but I'm not aware of what the "norm" is for the X.
Feb 10, 2015, 06:53 AM
#9
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Feb 10, 2015, 07:39 AM
#10
I kept ticking it up and stopped here. I can still get good pulls with only 1-2 counts so I stopped. Might be able to go higher. shooting for 12:1 (gasoline AFR) on E85 at 28psi on the stock turbo.
didn't see anyone else post theirs. I know this is very high compared to my 8 but I'm not aware of what the "norm" is for the X.
didn't see anyone else post theirs. I know this is very high compared to my 8 but I'm not aware of what the "norm" is for the X.
Feb 10, 2015, 02:09 PM
#11
with 28 psi i would assume you are hitting the 280-300 load column?
id say your timing is a bit high during spool up and peak boost but then you just went flat above 5000. personally i'd reduce some timing down low and actually add a bit up top.
i wouldn't really go over 8 or 9 degrees at 4000-4500 but i would ramp up after that. too much timing at peak torque is the stuff that can bend rods.
as far as peak timing, i ran 16 degrees on 93 octane. 19 on e85 up top isnt really anything crazy.
id say your timing is a bit high during spool up and peak boost but then you just went flat above 5000. personally i'd reduce some timing down low and actually add a bit up top.
i wouldn't really go over 8 or 9 degrees at 4000-4500 but i would ramp up after that. too much timing at peak torque is the stuff that can bend rods.
as far as peak timing, i ran 16 degrees on 93 octane. 19 on e85 up top isnt really anything crazy.
May 15, 2016, 12:05 AM
#15
Basic E85 tuning guide
I'll reinforce the warnings about relying on the knock sensor when tuning on E85, since it doesn't consistently knock when you go too lean or add too much timing you can quickly melt an engine before realizing you went too far. It's definitely best to be on a dyno to verify your changes are yielding consistent horsepower gains at each step. Road tuning with Virtual Dyno might be workable if you have a consistent testing location but you are well advised to stay on the conservative side of things in that case as it's just not as accurate as a dyno when comparing runs.
Generally aiming for 12.0 AFR on a wideband with gasoline calibration works well but every car will vary. Probably no leaner than 12.5 is wise or richer than 11.5 since going too rich on E85 can actually trigger some knock. With the effective 105 octane rating and additional cooling properties of E85 you can run elevated boost levels and increased timing within reason. Usually dialing in AFR with conservative boost/timing is a good first step, then set your boost level using conservative timing, then finally adjust timing upwards ensuring that each increase is still yielding consistent power. Generally I would avoid adding any extra timing over pump gas at 4000 or lower, then feed in as much as 3-4* once you reach peak RPM's but only if you see increases in power. Hopefully MIVEC settings will be good enough from your pump gas maps but keep in mind that boost may come on several hundred rpm's sooner so keep those WGDC and boost targets at reasonable levels.
As a baseline here are some timing values at various loads to give an idea of what the factory has as a starting point:
Stock Timing Tables (Pump Gas with 24 psi tapering to 16 psi)
3000 = 4 (240 load)
4000 = 8 (240 load)
5000 = 12 (240 load)
6000 = 16 (220 load)
7000 = 22 (200 load)
8000 = 26 (180 load)
Comments: It's been a while since I dynoed or datalogged a completely stock car but this should be close for comparison sake. When looking at the stock maps, the timing advance drops off quickly as loads rise along with increases in fuel delivery to the point where any increased boost is just fighting you as far as making power. This is one reason why adding parts alone often barely makes any difference until the tune is dialed in properly to match them.
Stock Timing Tables (Pump Gas with 28 psi tapering to 20 psi)
3000 = -2 (280 load)
4000 = 3 (280 load)
5000 = 6 (280 load)
6000 = 10 (260 load)
7000 = 16 (240 load)
8000 = 21 (220 load)
Comments: With elevated boost levels the stock timing tables cut timing back aggressively as boost/load rises, so much so that typically raising boost 4 psi might be completely countered by reducing timing by 5-6* and adding fuel when it comes to making power.
Based on what I've tuned I would say this chart is a reasonable starting point but by no means absolute. This assumes a modest 28 psi on E85 with typical load, smaller turbos will taper boost as RPM's rise which will place you in lower load cells with higher timing. Larger turbos will likely want lower timing because the higher boost levels will push you into much higher load values. Load values can vary quite a bit from car to car as well as how the tuner calibrates everything but this gives us a working timing range based on RPM & load that I'm willing to share. Higher load/boost means you will be forced to run lower timing, always start from the conservative side and work your way up. (As always use at your own risk!)
Target E85 Timing Tables (E85 with 28 psi tapering to lower boost for smaller turbos)
3000 = 4-6 (280 load)
4000 = 8-10 (280 load)
5000 = 12-14 (280 load)
6000 = 16-18 (260-280 load)
7000 = 20-22 (240-280 load)
8000 = 24-26 (220-260 load)
Generally aiming for 12.0 AFR on a wideband with gasoline calibration works well but every car will vary. Probably no leaner than 12.5 is wise or richer than 11.5 since going too rich on E85 can actually trigger some knock. With the effective 105 octane rating and additional cooling properties of E85 you can run elevated boost levels and increased timing within reason. Usually dialing in AFR with conservative boost/timing is a good first step, then set your boost level using conservative timing, then finally adjust timing upwards ensuring that each increase is still yielding consistent power. Generally I would avoid adding any extra timing over pump gas at 4000 or lower, then feed in as much as 3-4* once you reach peak RPM's but only if you see increases in power. Hopefully MIVEC settings will be good enough from your pump gas maps but keep in mind that boost may come on several hundred rpm's sooner so keep those WGDC and boost targets at reasonable levels.
As a baseline here are some timing values at various loads to give an idea of what the factory has as a starting point:
Stock Timing Tables (Pump Gas with 24 psi tapering to 16 psi)
3000 = 4 (240 load)
4000 = 8 (240 load)
5000 = 12 (240 load)
6000 = 16 (220 load)
7000 = 22 (200 load)
8000 = 26 (180 load)
Comments: It's been a while since I dynoed or datalogged a completely stock car but this should be close for comparison sake. When looking at the stock maps, the timing advance drops off quickly as loads rise along with increases in fuel delivery to the point where any increased boost is just fighting you as far as making power. This is one reason why adding parts alone often barely makes any difference until the tune is dialed in properly to match them.
Stock Timing Tables (Pump Gas with 28 psi tapering to 20 psi)
3000 = -2 (280 load)
4000 = 3 (280 load)
5000 = 6 (280 load)
6000 = 10 (260 load)
7000 = 16 (240 load)
8000 = 21 (220 load)
Comments: With elevated boost levels the stock timing tables cut timing back aggressively as boost/load rises, so much so that typically raising boost 4 psi might be completely countered by reducing timing by 5-6* and adding fuel when it comes to making power.
Based on what I've tuned I would say this chart is a reasonable starting point but by no means absolute. This assumes a modest 28 psi on E85 with typical load, smaller turbos will taper boost as RPM's rise which will place you in lower load cells with higher timing. Larger turbos will likely want lower timing because the higher boost levels will push you into much higher load values. Load values can vary quite a bit from car to car as well as how the tuner calibrates everything but this gives us a working timing range based on RPM & load that I'm willing to share. Higher load/boost means you will be forced to run lower timing, always start from the conservative side and work your way up. (As always use at your own risk!)
Target E85 Timing Tables (E85 with 28 psi tapering to lower boost for smaller turbos)
3000 = 4-6 (280 load)
4000 = 8-10 (280 load)
5000 = 12-14 (280 load)
6000 = 16-18 (260-280 load)
7000 = 20-22 (240-280 load)
8000 = 24-26 (220-260 load)
Last edited by Hiboost; May 15, 2016 at 12:22 AM.
