Drewdq's SBR 2.4/FP Black Build
Jul 10, 2010, 02:46 PM
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Drewdq's SBR 2.4/FP Black Build
Some of you may have seen that I recently threw a rod on my silver '04 VIII SSL with 70k miles, and I am now working on building an SBR 2.4/FP Black setup. So far I have ordered the SBR 2.4L motor and a ShepTrans shipping box to send my trans out. I would like to focus on discussing the supporting mods for my choice of motor/Turbo setup, rather than the motor/turbo choice. I will be doing the work myself, along with some help from friends including someone who has a 146MPH 1G Talon. I am still in the later planning stages, but I plan on ordering everything in the next 3-4 weeks. 
Current Setup:
My New Setup:
I will be running the stock ECU on 93/E85 with TephraMod V7, and will be professionally tuned. I am not looking to spend more money than I need to, and I am shooting for ~575whp on E85.
EvoM can help me with the following:
Thanks guys!
Current Setup:
- Stock longblock, with a hole punched through the back of the block. Slightly damaged head with HKS 272/272s, which likely can be rebuilt.
- Stock Trans that should be rebuilt
- Stock VIII Turbo
- Shep Stage III Transfer Case
- Megan O2 Housing
- Megan 3" Downpipe
- HKS Exhaust
- Lightly Ported Stock Exhaust Manifold
- ETS 3.5 FMIC
- Injen UICP
- BR LICP
- Injen Intake
- PTE1000cc injectors
- Single 255 Pump
- ACT XTSS Clutch
- AEM Electronic Boost Controller / AEM Wideband
- New Toyo Proxes 4
My New Setup:
- Slowboy Racing Stage III 2.4L
- OEM Polished Crank (not cut)
- Manley I Beam Rods
- ACL Race Bearings
- Manley .020'' 8:5:1 Pistons
- ARP Main Studs
- Cometic 87mm Bore Headgasket
- Water Pump Spacer and OEM 2.0 Water Pump
- OEM Oil Pump Assembly
- OEM 4g64 timing belt
- ARP L19 Head Studs
- Ported FP Black with Install Kit and 25psi actuator
- Headwork will be done by Ron Whitney, and will likely be ported with 1mm oversized valves, springs/retainers, ect.
- Ported Stock Intake Manifold by Ron Whitney
- Kelford 280's
- Fidanza Cam Gears (required for 2.4 with a 2.0 head)
- Shep Street/Strip Trans w/ Redline MT-90
- QuarterMaster Twin Disc Kit
- PPI Swaintech Coated/Ported Stock Exhaust Manifold
- PPI Swaintech Coated/Ported Megan O2 Housing
- BR Double 255 Pumper
- FIC 1450's
- Hallman Pro Boost Controller
I will be running the stock ECU on 93/E85 with TephraMod V7, and will be professionally tuned. I am not looking to spend more money than I need to, and I am shooting for ~575whp on E85.
EvoM can help me with the following:
- Should I replace the Injen UICP, and get a more direct UICP with a small battery kit? Cost vs Benefit?
- Better Intake choices?
- Feedback on ANY parts listed above ^^
- I am open for any other installation hints/suggestions, or components I should replace while I have everything out.
- Is anyone is selling something I am looking for?
- Ways to save money. This will be around $12,500 for parts, and I only wanted to spend ~$10,000.
Thanks guys!
Last edited by drewdq; Jul 10, 2010 at 02:50 PM.
Jul 10, 2010, 02:54 PM
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An aftermarket intake manifold/tb will net you at least 25 hp probably more on e85. Ive been looking at the magnus v5.
Since your running e85, you could def step up the compression.
edit: just saw shep case in current.
I hope your SBR motor holds up better than mine did. GL with the build. There are about 4 other very similar builds going on right now, so check those out for more ideas.
You might also want to look into the Power Enterprise head gasket.
Since your running e85, you could def step up the compression.
edit: just saw shep case in current.
I hope your SBR motor holds up better than mine did. GL with the build. There are about 4 other very similar builds going on right now, so check those out for more ideas.
You might also want to look into the Power Enterprise head gasket.
Jul 10, 2010, 03:54 PM
#3
1. You do realize the upper Ic basically does nothing its for show keep injen nothing wrong with it
2. A ported ppi extreme intake or map rev 3 is fine if you using stock ecu. if not magnus v5
3. I have some feed back i save it for below
4. below
5. I can get you a mona lisa manifold tubular give you more power midrange and uptop if you looking to go that route
6. Going a 2.4 route is not cheap looking to do what you want your asking for a full build average 20k- 25k then again you have e85 so you will not have to have as many mods persay
Things i sugguest you change
1. that crap HG please . Either use a Powerenterprises HG(www.horsepowerfreaks.com) 220+shipping or AMS custom like i have 150+shipping.
2. Cams not sure on the kelford 280s maybe get S2s
3. Definatly invest in a fluidampr and consider the Kiggly HLA
4. your not getting oil squirters right?
5. Add a Balance shaft eliminator kit
6. New pullies for sure both of them.
there are ways to get cost down but a 10k full build is not happening unless you get alot of used parts. for the long block you want it all new parts and thats where most of the money is going
BTW WELCOME TO THE FP BLACK 2.4 REVOLUTION WITH ME, MIKEY, NICKIE, JOHONNY, AARON, ACREE, BRANDON, AND MANY MORE. Look at our builds if you want to get ideal or learn more etc.
2. A ported ppi extreme intake or map rev 3 is fine if you using stock ecu. if not magnus v5
3. I have some feed back i save it for below
4. below
5. I can get you a mona lisa manifold tubular give you more power midrange and uptop if you looking to go that route
6. Going a 2.4 route is not cheap looking to do what you want your asking for a full build average 20k- 25k then again you have e85 so you will not have to have as many mods persay
Things i sugguest you change
1. that crap HG please . Either use a Powerenterprises HG(www.horsepowerfreaks.com) 220+shipping or AMS custom like i have 150+shipping.
2. Cams not sure on the kelford 280s maybe get S2s
3. Definatly invest in a fluidampr and consider the Kiggly HLA
4. your not getting oil squirters right?
5. Add a Balance shaft eliminator kit
6. New pullies for sure both of them.
there are ways to get cost down but a 10k full build is not happening unless you get alot of used parts. for the long block you want it all new parts and thats where most of the money is going
BTW WELCOME TO THE FP BLACK 2.4 REVOLUTION WITH ME, MIKEY, NICKIE, JOHONNY, AARON, ACREE, BRANDON, AND MANY MORE. Look at our builds if you want to get ideal or learn more etc.
Last edited by RockmanX; Jul 10, 2010 at 04:10 PM.
Jul 10, 2010, 04:07 PM
#5
-Head gasket has to go, seen many issues with commetic , very good reason why many big shops dont use it and silike it,,, i have seen hand on hand issues with it, OEM has proven to handle power over and over during the years.
- cams i would do, cossi's or GSC's
-The engine i would have Buschur or AMS build it
- Good choice on boost controller,,, iu had actually written to use a manual and not to worry about an electronic but then realized you are getting a manual !
- i would get a red instead,,, thats just me,,, on E85 you should put good numbers on it.
- Double pumper really wondering if you need it ?
- intake manifold,,, port it your self,, its super simple,,, there is nothing special they are doing you cant do,,, buy your self a 6 inch scale that measures inches and MM and you can take out as little or much as you want,,,,, or even better get your self some deph gauges and micromiters or calipers and get scientific,,,, you can buy cheap on ebay and you can still use the tools for something else. bottom line save yourself money and port your own stuff,,,, i would also do my own coating you dont have to go fancy,,, you will not gain any power by doing so its only temperature and looks related,,,, get yourself 40 bucks worth of wrapping material and wrap the DP, o2, exh mani.
- cams i would do, cossi's or GSC's
-The engine i would have Buschur or AMS build it
- Good choice on boost controller,,, iu had actually written to use a manual and not to worry about an electronic but then realized you are getting a manual !
- i would get a red instead,,, thats just me,,, on E85 you should put good numbers on it.
- Double pumper really wondering if you need it ?
- intake manifold,,, port it your self,, its super simple,,, there is nothing special they are doing you cant do,,, buy your self a 6 inch scale that measures inches and MM and you can take out as little or much as you want,,,,, or even better get your self some deph gauges and micromiters or calipers and get scientific,,,, you can buy cheap on ebay and you can still use the tools for something else. bottom line save yourself money and port your own stuff,,,, i would also do my own coating you dont have to go fancy,,, you will not gain any power by doing so its only temperature and looks related,,,, get yourself 40 bucks worth of wrapping material and wrap the DP, o2, exh mani.
Jul 10, 2010, 04:36 PM
#6
-Head gasket has to go, seen many issues with commetic , very good reason why many big shops dont use it and silike it,,, i have seen hand on hand issues with it, OEM has proven to handle power over and over during the years.
- cams i would do, cossi's or GSC's
-The engine i would have Buschur or AMS build it
- Good choice on boost controller,,, iu had actually written to use a manual and not to worry about an electronic but then realized you are getting a manual !
- i would get a red instead,,, thats just me,,, on E85 you should put good numbers on it.
- Double pumper really wondering if you need it ?
- intake manifold,,, port it your self,, its super simple,,, there is nothing special they are doing you cant do,,, buy your self a 6 inch scale that measures inches and MM and you can take out as little or much as you want,,,,, or even better get your self some deph gauges and micromiters or calipers and get scientific,,,, you can buy cheap on ebay and you can still use the tools for something else. bottom line save yourself money and port your own stuff,,,, i would also do my own coating you dont have to go fancy,,, you will not gain any power by doing so its only temperature and looks related,,,, get yourself 40 bucks worth of wrapping material and wrap the DP, o2, exh mani.
- cams i would do, cossi's or GSC's
-The engine i would have Buschur or AMS build it
- Good choice on boost controller,,, iu had actually written to use a manual and not to worry about an electronic but then realized you are getting a manual !
- i would get a red instead,,, thats just me,,, on E85 you should put good numbers on it.
- Double pumper really wondering if you need it ?
- intake manifold,,, port it your self,, its super simple,,, there is nothing special they are doing you cant do,,, buy your self a 6 inch scale that measures inches and MM and you can take out as little or much as you want,,,,, or even better get your self some deph gauges and micromiters or calipers and get scientific,,,, you can buy cheap on ebay and you can still use the tools for something else. bottom line save yourself money and port your own stuff,,,, i would also do my own coating you dont have to go fancy,,, you will not gain any power by doing so its only temperature and looks related,,,, get yourself 40 bucks worth of wrapping material and wrap the DP, o2, exh mani.
so you want somebody to port that has never done it before so if he messes up or takes to much off then he has to buy another manifold might as well pay somebody to do it right the first time pass. I have seen some do it yourselfers mess up good peaces bad trying to learn. You learn on spare peaces till you get good and comfortable not your own parts you plan on using lol. Coating does not give you more HP lol there are several coaters and dynos that would disagree with that. Now is it going to give you like 10whp no. but 2-3
. every little bit adds up. the rest of what you said was cool
Jul 10, 2010, 04:49 PM
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I still think you should have Buschur or AMS build the motor, but that is up to you.
I think the swaintech is not needed since it's a little pricey and will make you go over your budget.
I agree with the other HG comments.
Everything else looks legit and should be a pretty quick car.
I think the swaintech is not needed since it's a little pricey and will make you go over your budget.
I agree with the other HG comments.
Everything else looks legit and should be a pretty quick car.
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Jul 10, 2010, 05:41 PM
#9
Nice work it looks like your going to achieve your goal of 575 whp, with some proven parts. You should port the throttle body also, and bc you plan on running e85, the injectors will be operating close to the max I would recommend to go a little bigger to be safe using a fuel pressure regulator, and keep the br double pumper. If you can get your hands on one, get a br 80mm cold air intake pipe w / perrin air filter. Direct piping w/ a mini battery is the way to go for pwr efficiency but it's only minimal gains. You made some great choices, I don't think you can save any more money, unless you start cutting corners.
Last edited by 38six; Jul 10, 2010 at 05:45 PM.
Jul 10, 2010, 06:31 PM
#10
so you want somebody to port that has never done it before so if he messes up or takes to much off then he has to buy another manifold might as well pay somebody to do it right the first time pass. I have seen some do it yourselfers mess up good peaces bad trying to learn. You learn on spare peaces till you get good and comfortable not your own parts you plan on using lol. Coating does not give you more HP lol there are several coaters and dynos that would disagree with that. Now is it going to give you like 10whp no. but 2-3 . every little bit adds up. the rest of what you said was cool
. every little bit adds up. the rest of what you said was cool
intake manifold is not hard at all, the runners and TB openning area is good enough, with a dremel and flex adaptor you can get up in there pretty good,, and even the stock has proven to do well from factory so if not ported i dont think he will be missing anything.
as for coating goes havent seen any dyno sheets that prove that,,, dont throw your money away, its expensive and worthless i can care less about some of the heat escapping and when i did i wrapped my parts after i wrapped my DP after WOT pulls i could touch the DP and not burn myslef DEI has some good wrapping material and for 40 bucks you can wrap your whole body twice. many cars out there running 9, 8 and 10 sec pases with no coating at all. now reality will it help with engine bay temps YES, will it help maintain heat energy inside the piping YES and hence turbocharged cars like this, however you can accomplish the coating theory with way much less money DEI wrap cloth.
Last edited by apagan01; Jul 10, 2010 at 06:38 PM.
Jul 11, 2010, 03:02 AM
#11
if the op is driving an evo and modifying to that level i would expect him tpo have some base knowlege of mechanics and smart enough to do research here on the forums on how to port,,, its not hard at all to port many people can do it i dont think he will have an issue doing it,,,, unless the OP is a doctor and he has no clue how to change a tire and pays tripple A to change it for him OP just kidding
intake manifold is not hard at all, the runners and TB openning area is good enough, with a dremel and flex adaptor you can get up in there pretty good,, and even the stock has proven to do well from factory so if not ported i dont think he will be missing anything.
as for coating goes havent seen any dyno sheets that prove that,,, dont throw your money away, its expensive and worthless i can care less about some of the heat escapping and when i did i wrapped my parts after i wrapped my DP after WOT pulls i could touch the DP and not burn myslef DEI has some good wrapping material and for 40 bucks you can wrap your whole body twice. many cars out there running 9, 8 and 10 sec pases with no coating at all. now reality will it help with engine bay temps YES, will it help maintain heat energy inside the piping YES and hence turbocharged cars like this, however you can accomplish the coating theory with way much less money DEI wrap cloth.
intake manifold is not hard at all, the runners and TB openning area is good enough, with a dremel and flex adaptor you can get up in there pretty good,, and even the stock has proven to do well from factory so if not ported i dont think he will be missing anything.
as for coating goes havent seen any dyno sheets that prove that,,, dont throw your money away, its expensive and worthless i can care less about some of the heat escapping and when i did i wrapped my parts after i wrapped my DP after WOT pulls i could touch the DP and not burn myslef DEI has some good wrapping material and for 40 bucks you can wrap your whole body twice. many cars out there running 9, 8 and 10 sec pases with no coating at all. now reality will it help with engine bay temps YES, will it help maintain heat energy inside the piping YES and hence turbocharged cars like this, however you can accomplish the coating theory with way much less money DEI wrap cloth.
Jul 11, 2010, 01:49 PM
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I will look at the AMS Custom or Power-enterprises HG, and switch to one of them. The only reason I was going with a Cometic was because SBR shipped with that one.
For the Kelford 280's, I was looking at how well the Kelford 272's did here: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-cam-test.html The GSC S2's dynoed ~20whp less than the Kelford 272s...
Why is a $310 fluidampr suggested, what is wrong with the OEM HB?
What is everyone's thoughts on the Kiggly HLA - I thought the FP Install kit came with an in-line oil regulator?
The motor is being built without the balance shaft, but I am not sure about oil squirters.
I am only going to have a shop lightly port and match the intake manifold to the head, since they are doing the headwork anyway. I will consider porting the throttle body.
I think I need a double pumper for E85. I was reading in another thread that the FIC 1450's/BR double pumper made ~620whp on a 2.4/black/e85 car. I can consider the FIC 1550's or 1650's too.
I'll stick with a ported stock manifold for now, but maybe I'll drop the Swaintech coating for $80. Would you guys do a Swaintech Megan O2 housing, or a Buschur O2 housing (assuming it is 3in.)
A lot of people are making me doubt my decision to go with the SBR motor, but I know there are plenty of guys around the forums that are running them. Anyone care to comment? I would have been paying ~$1000 more for a very similar motor through Buschur/ER. With my SBR setup, I should be good part/component wise, but I am assuming they know how to put a shortblock together over there, and it seems like they have made a lot of these. It's currently a 8:5:1 build, but I was considering a 9:0 Manley Pistons instead. Thoughts?
Some pics: http://picasaweb.google.com/drewdq/EvoProgress#
For the Kelford 280's, I was looking at how well the Kelford 272's did here: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-cam-test.html The GSC S2's dynoed ~20whp less than the Kelford 272s...
Why is a $310 fluidampr suggested, what is wrong with the OEM HB?
What is everyone's thoughts on the Kiggly HLA - I thought the FP Install kit came with an in-line oil regulator?
The motor is being built without the balance shaft, but I am not sure about oil squirters.
I am only going to have a shop lightly port and match the intake manifold to the head, since they are doing the headwork anyway. I will consider porting the throttle body.
I think I need a double pumper for E85. I was reading in another thread that the FIC 1450's/BR double pumper made ~620whp on a 2.4/black/e85 car. I can consider the FIC 1550's or 1650's too.
I'll stick with a ported stock manifold for now, but maybe I'll drop the Swaintech coating for $80. Would you guys do a Swaintech Megan O2 housing, or a Buschur O2 housing (assuming it is 3in.)
A lot of people are making me doubt my decision to go with the SBR motor, but I know there are plenty of guys around the forums that are running them. Anyone care to comment? I would have been paying ~$1000 more for a very similar motor through Buschur/ER. With my SBR setup, I should be good part/component wise, but I am assuming they know how to put a shortblock together over there, and it seems like they have made a lot of these. It's currently a 8:5:1 build, but I was considering a 9:0 Manley Pistons instead. Thoughts?
Some pics: http://picasaweb.google.com/drewdq/EvoProgress#
Last edited by drewdq; Jul 11, 2010 at 01:55 PM.
Jul 11, 2010, 03:06 PM
#15
A lot of people are making me doubt my decision to go with the SBR motor, but I know there are plenty of guys around the forums that are running them. Anyone care to comment? I would have been paying ~$1000 more for a very similar motor through Buschur/ER. With my SBR setup, I should be good part/component wise, but I am assuming they know how to put a shortblock together over there, and it seems like they have made a lot of these.
I met the SBR gang a while back at the pri show about 4 or 5 years ago maybe, and they were talking about the diffrent configurations of using the 4g64 on the Evolution. I thought they were crazee. Fast fwd to now and every body is doing it. These guys are one of the pioneers of this build and supply many customers with these type of engines. You hardly ever hear from the hundreds of people that are happy and satisfied. Think about it, how many times have you puchased a product or recieved good service, did you take the time to wright a review or post accolades. I'm willing to bet you haven't done that for every time things went right, more than likely you said this was a good deal and just went on your way, like the rest of us. As for pricing SBR, Buschur, and ER is very close unless you go with one of SBR pkg deals.
I met the SBR gang a while back at the pri show about 4 or 5 years ago maybe, and they were talking about the diffrent configurations of using the 4g64 on the Evolution. I thought they were crazee. Fast fwd to now and every body is doing it. These guys are one of the pioneers of this build and supply many customers with these type of engines. You hardly ever hear from the hundreds of people that are happy and satisfied. Think about it, how many times have you puchased a product or recieved good service, did you take the time to wright a review or post accolades. I'm willing to bet you haven't done that for every time things went right, more than likely you said this was a good deal and just went on your way, like the rest of us. As for pricing SBR, Buschur, and ER is very close unless you go with one of SBR pkg deals.